INFO-VAX Fri, 05 Jan 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 10 Contents: Am I a boot node ? Re: CREATE/MAILBOX on VAX ? Re: DECNet over IP pointers FTP Idle Timeout Setting Re: FTP Idle Timeout Setting MIME encoding (was: Updated VMS Information - First one of 2007) Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia SIMH hints and tips please Re: SIMH hints and tips please Re: SIMH hints and tips please Re: SIMH hints and tips please Re: SIMH hints and tips please Re: SIMH hints and tips please SYSMAN suggestion: SET ENV /CLUSTER /EXCLUDE= Re: SYSMAN suggestion: SET ENV /CLUSTER /EXCLUDE= Re: TLZ06 cleaning cycle Re: Updated VMS Information - First one of 2007 Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails RE: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Re: US Military bans HTML in emails VMS 7.3-2 With OSU Web Server Re: VMS 7.3-2 With OSU Web Server Re: VMS 7.3-2 With OSU Web Server WANTED: VMS V4.1 & V4.2MUP Re: What method(s) to connect to VMS from Mac OS X through X11? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 04:52:01 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Am I a boot node ? Message-ID: Is there a way in DCL to find out if one of my disks are used as boot devices for nodes that are currently up and depending on them ? (and if so, which nodes ?) Once I know the disks, does the f$getdvi(disk,"ALT_HOST_AVAIL") on this node garantee that all other nodes have an alternate path to that disk ? In other words, before I proceed with a shutdown, I want to find out if my shutdown will impact other nodes because my node is the only path to their system disk. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 01:26:51 -0800 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: CREATE/MAILBOX on VAX ? Message-ID: <1167989211.809820.215550@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> You could use http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/mbx/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:19:32 -0800 From: Joe Bloggs Subject: Re: DECNet over IP pointers Message-ID: On 4 Jan 2007 02:50:18 -0800, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >Couple of things I don't see mentioned so far... > >MC NCL FLUSH SESSION CONTROL NAMING CACHE ENTRY "*" > >to clear out the caches of DECnet node names on the DECnet plus side. >It was a pain until I found that because nodes would cache details of >other nodes - even across reboots. A Heavier hammer still: $ stop/network decnet ..etc... $ DELETE/LOG SYS$SYSTEM:DECNET$CDI_CACHE.DAT;* $ DELETE/LOG SYS$SYSTEM:DNS$CACHE.*;* $ MCR NCL FLUSH SESSION CONTROL NAMING CACHE ENTRY "*" $ start/network decnet Other things to try, the Phase V ecos (DNVOSIECO0x) iirc, there were quite a few CDI & DNS-related fixes ... ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 06:41:43 -0800 From: "Techhead" Subject: FTP Idle Timeout Setting Message-ID: <1168008103.378687.272330@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> I am kind of new to VMS. I have Open VMS 8.3. How do I change the FTP idle timeout setting? ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 08:38:56 -0800 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: FTP Idle Timeout Setting Message-ID: <1168015136.215667.119490@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Which TCP product are you using ? client or server timeout? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 17:03:22 +0100 From: Michael Unger Subject: MIME encoding (was: Updated VMS Information - First one of 2007) Message-ID: <507c1cF1eaca9U2@mid.individual.net> On 2007-01-05 14:54, "VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG" wrote: > Would someone please help Sue to configure her news client to output > text to this newsgroup? I would love to read these articles but the > quoted-printable gobbledegook is annoying. I got the same in email > and simple discarded it because it is not readable. Sue's posting is declared as | Mime-Version: 1.0 | Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" | Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable which obviously is quite correct. (Posted via Google.) Admittedly "text/plain; charset=US-ASCII" would have been sufficient -- as well as not using MIME encoding at all. The mail is declared as | X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 [...] | MIME-Version: 1.0 | Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" | Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary and has been sent from "tayexc17.americas.cpqcorp.net". I don't find any characters other than US-ASCII so binary transfer isn't an issue at all. > [...] > > There's been a thread here about the military abandoning HTML email; > why can't we all follow suit and post readable text-only articles to > c.o.v? Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 08:12:25 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Message-ID: In article <1168004721.645116.76710@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "siju" writes: > I hope OpenVMS can be successfully Installed on SIMH. We all use it. But I can't help you with your DECUS issue. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 06:25:32 -0800 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Message-ID: <1168007132.285320.232850@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com> siju wrote: > Hi, > > I live in Cochin, kerala, India. > I would like to get the OpenVMS Operating System and licence. > I tried > > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/get_yer_licenses/join_user_group.html > > but the "DECUS Asia" Link is down. > > I don't own a VAX hardware. > My Experience with VAX in SIMH on OpenBSD > http://www.bsd-india.org/pipermail/bsd-india/2006-October/001218.html > > I hope OpenVMS can be successfully Installed on SIMH. > > Are there other free VAX/Alpha emulator software? > > My Desktop is OpenBSD/amd64 though I do sometimes sit on slamd64 and > Debian/amd64. > > > Thankyou so much for your help :-) > > kind Regards > > Siju Even though you live in India I believe you can join the US Encompass group. The Associate (free) membership ( https://www.encompassus.org/secure/membApp/index.cfm?form_type=ASSOC ) is all you need to get a VMS license from the OpenVMS Hobbyist site. Give it about a week or so from when you sign up for the information to be transferred to the hobbyist site. John H. Reinhardt John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 07:52:21 -0800 From: "Ian Miller" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Licence for people in Asia Message-ID: <1168012341.104187.251880@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> there is TS10 and there is a free verion of Charon-VAX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:52:46 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: SIMH hints and tips please Message-ID: I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system. VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK. But... I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed Google to death already) 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I can attach disks etc on startup. 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work. 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH are also welcome. TIA. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:43:14 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: SIMH hints and tips please Message-ID: In article <1167999813.699928.289570@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: > > > Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH > > are also welcome. > > Subscribe to the somewhat hidden Simh mailing list at > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > Thanks John. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 13:03:06 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: SIMH hints and tips please Message-ID: <5070k9F1el5f5U1@mid.individual.net> Not sure I uinderstand the questions, but I'll take a stab at it. In article , Paul Sture writes: > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system. > > VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK. > > But... > > I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed > Google to death already) > > 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I > can attach disks etc on startup. I just put all the configuration in a file and invoke the command with that file as a parameter. See below: triangle# cd ./SIM/PDP11/Ultrix-11 triangle# ls rd52 script rd52.dsk tmp1.dsk user1.dsk pdp11 root.dsk tmp2.dsk triangle# cat script set rl0 rl02 set rl1 rl02 set rl2 rl02 set rl3 rl02 at rl0 root.dsk at rl1 user1.dsk at rl2 tmp1.dsk at rl3 tmp2.dsk set rq0 ra82 at rq0 rd52.dsk b rl triangle# ./pdp11 script PDP-11 simulator V2.10-3 Sizing Memory... __ __Boot: rl(0,0)unix (CTRL/C will abort auto-boot) __ __Load device (? for help, if none) < ht tm ts tk rx rl rc > ? Simulation stopped, PC: 054726 (BIT #200,@120140) sim> exit Goodbye triangle# > > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work. Can you do that on most systems? That's dependant on the hardware, I think. I know it doesn't work on my VS3100. As a matter of fact, the pnly machine I know that works on is my PDP-11/44. And it is as much PITA as an advantage lots of times. (Like, you can't run things like Kermit or VTserver on the console!) > > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt ^E (Control-E) does it for me. > > Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH > are also welcome. Don't think its as off-topic here as a lot of stuff!! :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:41:03 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: SIMH hints and tips please Message-ID: <00A6142D.B2816B9E@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Paul Sture writes: > > >I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system. > >VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK. > >But... > >I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed >Google to death already) > >1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I >can attach disks etc on startup. > >2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work. > >3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt > >Suggestions for alternate places to discuss all things related to SIMH >are also welcome. I haven't played with SimH in awhile. Last time, I think, was two VMS boot camps ago. I recall showing Keith Parris VMS running on my Power- Book. It wasn't of much use then with networking notworking. Have you gotten SimH running with networking on OS X? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 08:09:09 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: SIMH hints and tips please Message-ID: In article , Paul Sture writes: > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system. > > VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK. > > But... > > I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed > Google to death already) > > 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I > can attach disks etc on startup. After starting SIMH you can run scripts with the do command. Takes one arguement: the name of the script file. By habit I call them .do files. sim> do myscript.do ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:23:04 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: SIMH hints and tips please Message-ID: In article , Dan Foster wrote: > In article , > Paul Sture wrote: > > I've got SIMH emulating a VAX on my OS X system. > > > > VMS V7.3 installed, Hobbyist licenses installed, all looks OK. > > > > But... > > > > I'm lacking info in the following areas (and believe me I've thrashed > > Google to death already) > > > > 1. how to set up a configuration in some sort of command file so that I > > can attach disks etc on startup. > > I don't understand the question because to have had installed VMS, you > would have had needed a working configuration file. Colour me confused? :) > > Usually all you need is a prepared SIMH configuration file. Let's say, > it's named 'vax.ini'. And let's say the SIMH VAX program is named 'vax'. > There's the crux of the problem. Because I didn't know how to invoke a config file, I was (mis)entering the config commands and ending up in knots from that. > > > 2. how to get back to the console prompt from VMS. ^P doesn't work. > > Haven't gotten that to work, so I'm not sure it's possible with SIMH. At some point I ended up with "VMS closed down, please halt console", and that's where I was stuck. > > 3. how to get back out of SIMH to the command prompt > > Which command prompt? :) VMS or MacOS X's? > > If back to VMS, then just type 'cont' at the sim> prompt. > > If back to MacOS X, just type ctrl-e then 'quit' and press Enter. > > (Or better yet, shutdown VMS normally. When it is done, it will dump you > into the sim> prompt. From there, type 'quit' then press Enter.) > CTRL-C or 'exit' seem to work here. Whatever, I feel some documentation coming on :-) > I see someone else has suggested the SIMH mailing list. I can attest to > its very helpful community, many of whose users are ex-PDP or ex-VAX. > They've also got a load of downloadable message archives - I think I'll start there before leaping in. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 02:53:18 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: SYSMAN suggestion: SET ENV /CLUSTER /EXCLUDE= Message-ID: <5d41e$459e0419$cef8887a$4782@TEKSAVVY.COM> It would be nice to have the ability to set the SYSMAN environment to include all nodes except one or more specific nodes. eg: SYSMAN> SET ENV/CLUSTER/EXCLUDE=(node1,node2) For instance, you want a command to execute on all nodes except the node issuing the SYSMAN command. Yeah, I know, I can use lexxicals to build a list of nodes, exclude the ones I want to exclude, and then setup logicals that can be used by system, but a /EXCLUDE would be much cleaner and easier. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 05:25:13 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: SYSMAN suggestion: SET ENV /CLUSTER /EXCLUDE= Message-ID: On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:53:18 -0800, JF Mezei = wrote: > It would be nice to have the ability to set the SYSMAN environment to = = > include all nodes except one or more specific nodes. > > eg: > > SYSMAN> SET ENV/CLUSTER/EXCLUDE=3D(node1,node2) Unless you have a very large cluster, why is this easier than SYSMAN> SET E/N=3D(NODE3,NODE4) ? > > For instance, you want a command to execute on all nodes except the no= de = > issuing the SYSMAN command. > > Yeah, I know, I can use lexxicals to build a list of nodes, exclude th= e = > ones I want to exclude, and then setup logicals that can be used by = > system, but a /EXCLUDE would be much cleaner and easier. -- = Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 10:19:30 -0800 From: "Doug Phillips" Subject: Re: TLZ06 cleaning cycle Message-ID: <1168021170.075757.177340@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> AEF wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: > > tadamsmar wrote: > > > How often should a TLZ06 be cleaned? > > > > > > How may 90 M tapes can you fill before you need to clean? > > > > > > I tend to clean when I do an image backup, but that might be too often, > > > only a couple of > > > 90 M tapes are filled between image backups on some of my systems. > > > > > > I hear that cleaning tends to wear out the heads. > > > > DEC recommended running a cleaning tape every 2 weeks or after every 50 > > hours of usage, and the cleaning tapes I've used are good for only 25 > > cleanings. Cleaning too often does wear out the heads and this usually > > manifests itself first by showing positioning errors, maybe along with > > parity errors that don't go away when you clean, then complete failure > > to mount. All TLZ06's available today are refurbs --- and you could go > > Interesting. HP DAT cleaning cartidges say extra cleaning is harmless > (well, of course they'd say that). Also, circa 2000/2001, a support > person who came on site to swap some of my TLZ07 drives gave me a copy > of his secret troubleshooting cheat sheet. It said to try run the > cleaning tape FOUR time. I kid you not: FOUR times. It also said the > first two errors in ANAL/ERROR output are the most important to look > at. > I guess I should look at getting HP cleaning cartridges. I use whatever brand I find at the local stores. I just looked at the Maxell cleaning cartridge I've been using and it's good for 40 cleans and recommends cleaning every 25 hours. Shows how my memory works:-) Maybe my experiences with 4mm over the years have been coincidental, but my sites that follow the 30 to 40 hour rule have some TLZ06/TLZ07 drives that have been around since they were a new item. I've had others who lived by "if some's good, more's better" and cleaned weekly or even daily, and all of those sites have had to replace their drives. The ones who never cleaned until they got parity errors have had to replace their drives. (those sites were usually less religious about tracking tape age, too, though.) Keeping track of each tape's usage and replacing tapes as they reach whatever arbitrary max number of usages that you set (which *really does* seems to vary by brand and batch and drive and environment and handling and sun-spot activity and who knows what) into the rotation is as important as proper cleaning. If you allow older tapes to linger too long in the rotation, then clean closer to 30 or fewer hours. If your environment is fairly clean and old tapes are retired before they fall apart (and you've found a good brand that works for your drive) then 40 or+ hours is probably best. Now, many (most?) of the newer 4mm drives are "self cleaning" whatever that means. Those might not need special cleaning unless an old tape really dirties the heads, but I still do an occasional (like every 100 hours or so) run-through with a cleaning cartridge just to help out that little elf or fairy inside (that's gotta be how it works, no?:-) > Several months ago I found that switching from DDS-2 to DDS-1 reduced > my troubles. Good if you don't need the capacity. I've done that, too. Had a client that bought a new Windoze server that had a DDS5 (DAT72) drive, bought a bunch of tapes at a great qty discount, and tried to use them in his TLZ07. On the phone: "It keeps spitting the tape out, and they're brand new tapes. The drive must be broken." > But now I'm having trouble with a drive that gets errors > during a verify pass! When I take the tape out, it is almost entirely > wound onto the take-up reel! (The last time this drive did this, the > tape was found to be fine with a separate BACKUP/COMPARE operation!) > Frustrating. > > through a couple before finding a reliable one, even if the seller has > > tested them thoroughly. You'd probably want a newer drive, i.e. TLZ10, > > for a replacement. > > Maybe more than a couple if you have my luck! > You're right, I just said a couple because it was easier than coming up with an average;-) > > > > Parity errors seem to be a good indicator of dirty heads, but by then > > (if you're running unattended) you've potentially lost a backup. I've > > found 50 hours to be too close to max, and usually clean after 30 to 40 > > hours. That works out to monthly for me. Cleaning every 2 weeks could > > be way too often if usage is light, unless you have a "dirty" > > environment. > > > > If you log your usage, it shouldn't be hard to determine your cleaning > > cycle. > > Well, it can't hurt to try. > Try is all we can do. ************************* "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." (Samuel Beckett, "Worstward Ho", 1984) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:54:09 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Updated VMS Information - First one of 2007 Message-ID: <00A6142F.86E15CD1@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1167955811.463865.103910@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Sue" writes: > > >Dear Newsgroup, Dear VMS engineering folks, Would someone please help Sue to configure her news client to output text to this newsgroup? I would love to read these articles but the quoted-printable gobbledegook is annoying. I got the same in email and simple discarded it because it is not readable. It's not even consistent encoding. In some places, the . appears and in others it is encoded to the =2E quoted printable. Spaces are fine in some places and in others it puts in the =20. And the most annoy- ing of all is = becomes =3D; that saves so much bandwidth encoding one character to three. There's been a thread here about the military abandoning HTML email; why can't we all follow suit and post readable text-only articles to c.o.v? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:26:12 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: In article <459DC64F.A28F9A39@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera wrote: > Bob Willard wrote in response to the following text: >> > > >>More as in: > > >> min 8 characters > > >> min 1 uppercase > > >> min 1 lowercase > > >> min 1 digit > > >> min 1 punctuation > > > > > > (read: impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down and subsequently > > > compromised) > > > > Bu11$hit > > BZZZZZZZZZT! Try again. Read Bob's response again. It was very funny. I might dispute that "$" is a punctuation character, but the rest of the above criteria are there. "Bul1$shit." works, and shouldn't need writing down. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 11:47:39 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <506s6rF1ehaeaU1@mid.individual.net> In article <459DC64F.A28F9A39@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Bob Willard wrote: >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> > >> >>AEF wrote: >> >> >> >>>Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>David J Dachtera wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>Not in the real world. Good enough doesn't cut it when someone higher >> >>>>>>than you says, "The corporate standard is MS Word." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>...until the(ir next) multi-billion-dollar outage due to malware. Then, the >> >>>>>higher-ups face turn-over while the workers bees burn the midnight oil to clean >> >>>>>up the mess. >> >>>> >> >>>>There were some real bad incidents 3-5 years ago. >> >>>> >> >>>>No move from Windows then. >> >>>> >> >>>>Now the MIS departments has tightened security. >> >>> >> >>>You mean like requiring 6-character passwords to now be "complex"? >> >>>Yeah, that'll stop 'em!!! ;-) >> >>> >> >>>OK, maybe they're actually doing some more useful things. >> >> >> >>More as in: >> >> min 8 characters >> >> min 1 uppercase >> >> min 1 lowercase >> >> min 1 digit >> >> min 1 punctuation >> > >> > >> > (read: impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down and subsequently >> > compromised) >> > >> >> Bu11$hit > > BZZZZZZZZZT! Try again. No dae, he is right. I don't write mine down. People who write down their passwords will do it no matter what the complexity is and people who know and accept that they shouldn't won't. It is very possible to create a complex password that you can remember. And, you oinly have to type it a couple times before it is commited to memory anyway. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 04:44:35 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <1168001075.746028.39210@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> JF Mezei wrote: > http://www.fcw.com/article97178-12-22-06-Web > ## > Due to an increased network threat condition, the Defense Department is > blocking all HTML-based e-mail messages and has banned the use of Outlook > Web Access e-mail applications, according to a spokesman for the Joint Task > Force for Global Network Operations. if OpenVMS was their network, then they would not have to worry as vms does not get viruses, and they could run soymail or quintara or some other web mail access product on vms and never have to worry about anything ... ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 05:25:31 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <1168003531.425321.175750@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <459DC64F.A28F9A39@spam.comcast.net>, > David J Dachtera writes: > > Bob Willard wrote: > >> > >> David J Dachtera wrote: > >> > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> > > >> >>AEF wrote: > >> >> > >> >>>Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>>David J Dachtera wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>>Not in the real world. Good enough doesn't cut it when someone = higher > >> >>>>>>than you says, "The corporate standard is MS Word." > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>...until the(ir next) multi-billion-dollar outage due to malware.= Then, the > >> >>>>>higher-ups face turn-over while the workers bees burn the midnigh= t oil to clean > >> >>>>>up the mess. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>There were some real bad incidents 3-5 years ago. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>No move from Windows then. > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Now the MIS departments has tightened security. > >> >>> > >> >>>You mean like requiring 6-character passwords to now be "complex"? > >> >>>Yeah, that'll stop 'em!!! ;-) > >> >>> > >> >>>OK, maybe they're actually doing some more useful things. > >> >> > >> >>More as in: > >> >> min 8 characters > >> >> min 1 uppercase > >> >> min 1 lowercase > >> >> min 1 digit > >> >> min 1 punctuation > >> > > >> > > >> > (read: impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down and sub= sequently > >> > compromised) > >> > > >> > >> Bu11$hit > > > > BZZZZZZZZZT! Try again. > > No dae, he is right. I don't write mine down. People who write down the= ir Well, QED! We're all just like you, right? I like physics. I guess that means all people like physics. > passwords will do it no matter what the complexity is and people who know > and accept that they shouldn't won't. It is very possible to create a Is it beyond imagination that some peoeple will write down some of their passwords, but not others? Guess which ones these people will write down. > complex password that you can remember. And, you oinly have to type it > a couple times before it is commited to memory anyway. Ah! That explains why people write them down. I see. > bill > > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include AEF ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 13:56:28 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <5073ocF1eojtiU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1168003531.425321.175750@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <459DC64F.A28F9A39@spam.comcast.net>, >> David J Dachtera writes: >> > Bob Willard wrote: >> >> >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>AEF wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>>David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>>Not in the real world. Good enough doesn't cut it when someone higher >> >> >>>>>>than you says, "The corporate standard is MS Word." >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>...until the(ir next) multi-billion-dollar outage due to malware. Then, the >> >> >>>>>higher-ups face turn-over while the workers bees burn the midnight oil to clean >> >> >>>>>up the mess. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>There were some real bad incidents 3-5 years ago. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>No move from Windows then. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>Now the MIS departments has tightened security. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>You mean like requiring 6-character passwords to now be "complex"? >> >> >>>Yeah, that'll stop 'em!!! ;-) >> >> >>> >> >> >>>OK, maybe they're actually doing some more useful things. >> >> >> >> >> >>More as in: >> >> >> min 8 characters >> >> >> min 1 uppercase >> >> >> min 1 lowercase >> >> >> min 1 digit >> >> >> min 1 punctuation >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > (read: impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down and subsequently >> >> > compromised) >> >> > >> >> >> >> Bu11$hit >> > >> > BZZZZZZZZZT! Try again. >> >> No dae, he is right. I don't write mine down. People who write down their > Well, QED! We're all just like you, right? Everybody doesn't have to be like me to prove the above statement wrong. The statement was that complex passwords are "impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down". If some number greater than 0 remember them and don't write them down the original premise is proven wrong. I can assure you I konw lot's of people who do not write down their passwords. Especially those in environments where the penalties for a violation can be devastating beyond career ending. > I like physics. I guess that means all people like physics. >> passwords will do it no matter what the complexity is and people who know >> and accept that they shouldn't won't. It is very possible to create a > Is it beyond imagination that some peoeple will write down some of > their passwords, but not others? Guess which ones these people will > write down. "beyond imagination"? probably not. But my experience has been that people who write down passwords write them down no matter how trivial they are. Safe combinations are the same and I have been working with them (and the people who have to know them) for more years than there have been computer passwords. It's more a psychological thing than a real need. One can create very complex passwords that are meaningful to them and thus don't require writing down. >> complex password that you can remember. And, you oinly have to type it >> a couple times before it is commited to memory anyway. > Ah! That explains why people write them down. I see. No, as I said, it's a crutch. Some people feel a need to write them down and they will, complex or not. Some people go to calss and take page after page of notes, often missing things that go on in the classroom that are more important than what the professor spoke, because they were too busy looking at their notebook and writting. Others, have good memories and take very few notes. It's more psychological than physical. Which is, why it is so hard to combat. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 06:27:33 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <1168007253.081769.240910@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com> bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > http://www.fcw.com/article97178-12-22-06-Web > > ## > > Due to an increased network threat condition, the Defense Department is > > blocking all HTML-based e-mail messages and has banned the use of Outlook > > Web Access e-mail applications, according to a spokesman for the Joint Task > > Force for Global Network Operations. > > if OpenVMS was their network, then they would not have to worry > as vms does not get viruses, and they could run soymail or quintara > or some other web mail access product on vms and never have to > worry about anything ... Soymail? Sounds disgusting. AEF ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 06:25:16 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <1168007116.516929.4520@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <1168003531.425321.175750@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>, > "AEF" writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> In article <459DC64F.A28F9A39@spam.comcast.net>, > >> David J Dachtera writes: > >> > Bob Willard wrote: > >> >> > >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: > >> >> > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >>AEF wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >>>Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>David J Dachtera wrote: > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>>>Not in the real world. Good enough doesn't cut it when someo= ne higher > >> >> >>>>>>than you says, "The corporate standard is MS Word." > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>>...until the(ir next) multi-billion-dollar outage due to malwa= re. Then, the > >> >> >>>>>higher-ups face turn-over while the workers bees burn the midn= ight oil to clean > >> >> >>>>>up the mess. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>There were some real bad incidents 3-5 years ago. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>No move from Windows then. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>Now the MIS departments has tightened security. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>You mean like requiring 6-character passwords to now be "complex= "? > >> >> >>>Yeah, that'll stop 'em!!! ;-) > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>OK, maybe they're actually doing some more useful things. > >> >> >> > >> >> >>More as in: > >> >> >> min 8 characters > >> >> >> min 1 uppercase > >> >> >> min 1 lowercase > >> >> >> min 1 digit > >> >> >> min 1 punctuation > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > (read: impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down and = subsequently > >> >> > compromised) > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> Bu11$hit > >> > > >> > BZZZZZZZZZT! Try again. > >> > >> No dae, he is right. I don't write mine down. People who write down = their > > Well, QED! We're all just like you, right? > > Everybody doesn't have to be like me to prove the above statement wrong. > The statement was that complex passwords are "impossible to remember, > guaranteed to be written down". If some number greater than 0 remember > them and don't write them down the original premise is proven wrong. > I can assure you I konw lot's of people who do not write down their > passwords. Especially those in environments where the penalties for > a violation can be devastating beyond career ending. OK. > > > I like physics. I guess that means all people like physics. > >> passwords will do it no matter what the complexity is and people who k= now > >> and accept that they shouldn't won't. It is very possible to create a > > Is it beyond imagination that some peoeple will write down some of > > their passwords, but not others? Guess which ones these people will > > write down. > > "beyond imagination"? probably not. But my experience has been that > people who write down passwords write them down no matter how trivial > they are. Safe combinations are the same and I have been working with > them (and the people who have to know them) for more years than there > have been computer passwords. It's more a psychological thing than a > real need. One can create very complex passwords that are meaningful > to them and thus don't require writing down. As you said, it only takes one to disprove the premise. And I'm sure there are many. > > >> complex password that you can remember. And, you oinly have to type it > >> a couple times before it is commited to memory anyway. > > Ah! That explains why people write them down. I see. > > No, as I said, it's a crutch. Some people feel a need to write them down > and they will, complex or not. Some people go to calss and take page aft= er > page of notes, often missing things that go on in the classroom that are > more important than what the professor spoke, because they were too busy > looking at their notebook and writting. Others, have good memories and > take very few notes. It's more psychological than physical. Which is, > why it is so hard to combat. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include So then what's the advantage of complex vs longer length? Why bother with complex at all when longer length gives you a lot more bang for the buck? AEF ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 14:39:12 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <50768gF1elpgbU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1168007116.516929.4520@s80g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <1168003531.425321.175750@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com>, >> "AEF" writes: >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> In article <459DC64F.A28F9A39@spam.comcast.net>, >> >> David J Dachtera writes: >> >> > Bob Willard wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> >> > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >>AEF wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>>David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>>Not in the real world. Good enough doesn't cut it when someone higher >> >> >> >>>>>>than you says, "The corporate standard is MS Word." >> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >> >>>>>...until the(ir next) multi-billion-dollar outage due to malware. Then, the >> >> >> >>>>>higher-ups face turn-over while the workers bees burn the midnight oil to clean >> >> >> >>>>>up the mess. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>There were some real bad incidents 3-5 years ago. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>No move from Windows then. >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>Now the MIS departments has tightened security. >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>You mean like requiring 6-character passwords to now be "complex"? >> >> >> >>>Yeah, that'll stop 'em!!! ;-) >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>>OK, maybe they're actually doing some more useful things. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>More as in: >> >> >> >> min 8 characters >> >> >> >> min 1 uppercase >> >> >> >> min 1 lowercase >> >> >> >> min 1 digit >> >> >> >> min 1 punctuation >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > (read: impossible to remember, guaranteed to be written down and subsequently >> >> >> > compromised) >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Bu11$hit >> >> > >> >> > BZZZZZZZZZT! Try again. >> >> >> >> No dae, he is right. I don't write mine down. People who write down their >> > Well, QED! We're all just like you, right? >> >> Everybody doesn't have to be like me to prove the above statement wrong. >> The statement was that complex passwords are "impossible to remember, >> guaranteed to be written down". If some number greater than 0 remember >> them and don't write them down the original premise is proven wrong. >> I can assure you I konw lot's of people who do not write down their >> passwords. Especially those in environments where the penalties for >> a violation can be devastating beyond career ending. > OK. >> >> > I like physics. I guess that means all people like physics. >> >> passwords will do it no matter what the complexity is and people who know >> >> and accept that they shouldn't won't. It is very possible to create a >> > Is it beyond imagination that some peoeple will write down some of >> > their passwords, but not others? Guess which ones these people will >> > write down. >> >> "beyond imagination"? probably not. But my experience has been that >> people who write down passwords write them down no matter how trivial >> they are. Safe combinations are the same and I have been working with >> them (and the people who have to know them) for more years than there >> have been computer passwords. It's more a psychological thing than a >> real need. One can create very complex passwords that are meaningful >> to them and thus don't require writing down. > As you said, it only takes one to disprove the premise. And I'm sure > there are many. >> >> >> complex password that you can remember. And, you oinly have to type it >> >> a couple times before it is commited to memory anyway. >> > Ah! That explains why people write them down. I see. >> >> No, as I said, it's a crutch. Some people feel a need to write them down >> and they will, complex or not. Some people go to calss and take page after >> page of notes, often missing things that go on in the classroom that are >> more important than what the professor spoke, because they were too busy >> looking at their notebook and writting. Others, have good memories and >> take very few notes. It's more psychological than physical. Which is, >> why it is so hard to combat. >> >> bill >> >> -- >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >> bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> University of Scranton | >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > So then what's the advantage of complex vs longer length? Why bother > with complex at all when longer length gives you a lot more bang for > the buck? There is no advantage to complex over long passwords. Except that at the point when complex was mandated long was still not technically possible on a majority of the systems, in particular a majority of systems in use by the mandating party. (which also tends to disprove the "VMS is rampant in government" rumour as I beleive VMS has been able to do long passwords for years already.) Now that the technical problems have been eliminated they are looking at long as opposed to complex passwords. Of course, they are also looking at things like SmartCards and biometrics. Just don't forget to bring your eye and your thumb with you when you go to work. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 12:26:31 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: RE: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <1g4hvC7FghMC@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <000001c730d4$ddec2830$1f3a0681@sdct.nist.gov>, "Dan Allen" writes: > Well I consider myself to be a security concious guy of reasonable intellectual > capacity. And in 30+ years in this business I never felt it necessary or wise to > write down any password. But in the last 2 years of painfully struggling to > remember half a dozen or more complex corporate passwords, each with its' own > rules, ~60 day expiry, and ~2 year reuse policy (all mandated by HQ) I gave up. > I got tired of making nearly weekly jaunts across campus to present photo ID and > pick up a sealed envelope containing the new one-time password issued by the > password police because I couldn't remember the old one. And I can assure you > I'm not a lone wolf. > > Hopefully you'll never find the list and if you do it won't have any of the > passwords needed to access my personal financial accounts which are managed by > folks with more practical password policies. And quite frankly I feel my > financial accounts are better protected. The problem to be dealt with (especially by some folks in your domain :-) is how to provide _assurance_ to management that good password practices are used by everyone with access. If passwords are to be used, rule sets are the only way to ensure a minimum of care. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 12:29:37 -0600 From: frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon) Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <0e3kdrEJpFNh@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <5073ocF1eojtiU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > "beyond imagination"? probably not. But my experience has been that > people who write down passwords write them down no matter how trivial > they are. Safe combinations are the same and I have been working with > them (and the people who have to know them) for more years than there > have been computer passwords. It's more a psychological thing than a > real need. One can create very complex passwords that are meaningful > to them and thus don't require writing down. You obviously don't work where I do. I do complex passwords and can remember them without writing them down. Except that every little utility or function at my work requires a password to get into, they all have different format requirements and they all have different retention and rotation requirements. So I have to have a different password for: access to primary network dialin access to primary network access to secondary network dialin access to secondary network voicemail timecard system paystub system training system retirement bennies system healthcare bennies system travel booking system amex business account system one helpdesk logging system another helpdesk logging system webex account system and probably a few others I don't access very often that I'm forgetting. - Sharon "Gravity... is a harsh mistress!" ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 18:36:41 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: US Military bans HTML in emails Message-ID: <507k5pF1eojd2U1@mid.individual.net> In article <0e3kdrEJpFNh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon) writes: > In article <5073ocF1eojtiU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> "beyond imagination"? probably not. But my experience has been that >> people who write down passwords write them down no matter how trivial >> they are. Safe combinations are the same and I have been working with >> them (and the people who have to know them) for more years than there >> have been computer passwords. It's more a psychological thing than a >> real need. One can create very complex passwords that are meaningful >> to them and thus don't require writing down. > > You obviously don't work where I do. I do complex passwords and can > remember them without writing them down. Except that every little utility or > function at my work requires a password to get into, they all have different > format requirements and they all have different retention and rotation > requirements. So I have to have a different password for: > > access to primary network > dialin access to primary network > access to secondary network > dialin access to secondary network > voicemail > timecard system > paystub system > training system > retirement bennies system > healthcare bennies system > travel booking system > amex business account system > one helpdesk logging system > another helpdesk logging system > webex account system > > and probably a few others I don't access very often that I'm forgetting. > Sounds more like a management issue than a technical one. We used to have to use three different (and un-synchronized) passwords here in the department. Most users considered that unacceptable and we now have single-signon. If the password is secure there is no reason to require a bunch of them. Well, no technical reason, there is always politics. Personally, I am becomeing more and more n favor of the SmartCard idea. Enough that I have already asked TPTB why the University doesn't look at that as their ID card. I have it at home, how hard or expensive can it really be> :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:11:05 -0500 From: Chuck Aaron Subject: VMS 7.3-2 With OSU Web Server Message-ID: Does anyone know how to reject an IP address from web server access running on an Alpha ds25 with Openvms 7.3-2? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 08:11:19 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-2 With OSU Web Server Message-ID: In article , Chuck Aaron writes: > Does anyone know how to reject an IP address from web server > access running on an Alpha ds25 with Openvms 7.3-2? Yes. But we'd have to know what IP stack you're running to give you details. What web server you're running would also be usefull. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 09:15:29 -0500 From: Chuck Aaron Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-2 With OSU Web Server Message-ID: Decnet over IP. Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 4 on a AlphaServer DS25 running OpenVMS V7.3-2 Osu web server 3.10a. Thanks, Chuck Bob Koehler wrote: >In article , Chuck Aaron writes: > > >>Does anyone know how to reject an IP address from web server >>access running on an Alpha ds25 with Openvms 7.3-2? >> >> > > Yes. But we'd have to know what IP stack you're running to give you > details. What web server you're running would also be usefull. > > > ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 03:03:05 -0800 From: "vaxorcist" Subject: WANTED: VMS V4.1 & V4.2MUP Message-ID: <1167994985.527254.100640@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> MicroVMS versions would do as well! Ulli ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 2007 08:02:59 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: What method(s) to connect to VMS from Mac OS X through X11? Message-ID: <+mNcd0t27O0n@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1167946593.658334.30960@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, sean@obanion.us writes: > Bob, > > Which IP stack on VMS are you using? > Multinet. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.010 ************************