INFO-VAX Sun, 08 Jul 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 369 Contents: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Book: Inside the Machine Re: Book: Inside the Machine Re: Book: Inside the Machine Re: expanding shadow size Re: IA64 clusters with eva RE: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: July the 4th Re: Printing pre-setup RE: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Re: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Re: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) also?)al RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) RE: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Re: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) RE: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Re: SEARCH: expected result? Re: SEARCH: expected result? Send Mail at specific time Re: Send Mail at specific time Re: Send Mail at specific time Re: Send Mail at specific time Re: Send Mail at specific time Re: Send Mail at specific time Re: ssh stack dumps on new V8.3 install Re: XMODEM for VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 20:12:43 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <46902bf1$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: > Ok, so lets assume that you have a well run IT shop that ensures all > applicable security patches are applied asap. Now, lets also assume > you have a well run IT shop that tests all important applications > before they get rolled into production. This likely takes a few days > with setup-scripting etc. Lets also assume your Operations staff is > like 99% of most IT shops that do not really understand what is > running on all your systems in terms of things like Services that > require ActiveX or COM or any other low hanging things that might be > open for patching. > > Now, like any well run shop, you regularly visit the following RH > site to pick up the monthly Linux security patches: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click thread > for each month) > > Now remember above note about OPS do not know much about any low > level service requirements for most applications and there are > hundreds of services on these many servers. > > Ok, so looking at this RH web site: > > In June 2007 alone, RH Linux had 29 *security* patches. > > In May 2007 alone, RH Linux had 42 *security* patches. > > So, please explain to me how the typical understaffed IT shop is > expected to follow their normal processes, review these 71 security > patches, test all their important applications with the applicable > patches from this that apply from just this past 2 months. > > And also do their normal day-to-day support, fire fighting jobs that > is their primary role. As some of us has tried to explain: * OPS does not apply patches - system group does * the majority of systems are not patches because they live their life far far away from the dangerous internet * if they update systems it will very likely be a selective update based on tiers >> A security hole in Apache on a server where Apache is installed >> does not become a security issue because the OPS guy do not have a >> clue about what apps are installed. > > Who says that they even know where or what servers Apache is running > on? > > Remember there are hundreds of servers in small to medium DC. If the company are installing web servers on systems that does not require web servers as part of "patching", then that company has serious problems. And it is not the choice of OS. >>> OPS will first introduce the security patches to Dev systems, then QA >>> and then production. >> OPS does not apply patches. Systems group or whatever it is called >> does. > > OPS or Operations or Systems Group - same thing. BMW or Ford ? Same thing ! >>>> Systems that live a nice comfortable life far away from >>>> internet and PC's do not get all those patches. >>> Again, remember what analysts state - 50-60% of all security issues >>> are internally initiated - not from the Internet. Disgruntled >>> employees are only one source of the problem. >> I can ask for a third time: how many of those 50-60% uses security >> holes in software ? > > A good portion. Pick a number between 0 and 100%. I would estimate about 0.001% or so. >>> Today, you have almost every Sales, Marketing, Support resources >>> person their laptops, PDA's, memory sticks, Cell phones back and >>> forth from external networks (home, airports, hotels, foreign >>> countries) to internal networks each and every day. >>> >>> Each time one of those devices goes home and comes back, there is >>> a >>> chance that it picked up some self propagating Trojan, worm, virus >>> etc that is looking for known security holes to exploit on internal >>> servers. >>> >>> How many employees can say their home, hotel or airport networks are >>> as secure as their work environment? >> And ? > > See above about your comment about security issues in software. I don't know which huge data centers you visit. But I would expect a bit of isolation (like 100%) between production networks and the PC networks. And even if that was not the case, then there would not really be any need to utilize a security hole in the production systems. > Again, with all due respect, it just blows me away that these you do > not see these as major issues. It sounds like you have been bitten by > the hype bug. It is the reality that Linux is marching into the data centers and there does not seem to be a problem with patches. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:05:41 +0100 From: Russell Wallace Subject: Re: Book: Inside the Machine Message-ID: Bill Todd wrote: > I'd be curious to know what those are: while a fair number of bells and > whistles got thrown into the pot (my impression is due to design by > committee), Itanic's basic premise is all about simplicity and > efficiency (let the compiler do most of the work so that out-of-order > circuitry won't be necessary for good single-threaded performance). Yeah. Let's see, it's been a good few years since I read the manual, but one I vaguely remember is executing both sides of a branch and discarding the results of one side when the condition becomes available. It saves the risk of having to do a pipeline flush because of a mispredict, but it means in the typical case you're generating heat calculating results that won't be used; it strikes me as the sort of feature that'll be added by people who are still thinking "absolute performance" and haven't yet started thinking "performance per watt". -- "Always look on the bright side of life." To reply by email, replace no.spam with my last name. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:41:25 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Book: Inside the Machine Message-ID: On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:05:41 -0700, Russell Wallace wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >> I'd be curious to know what those are: while a fair number of bells >> and whistles got thrown into the pot (my impression is due to design by >> committee), Itanic's basic premise is all about simplicity and >> efficiency (let the compiler do most of the work so that out-of-order >> circuitry won't be necessary for good single-threaded performance). > > Yeah. Let's see, it's been a good few years since I read the manual, but > one I vaguely remember is executing both sides of a branch and > discarding the results of one side when the condition becomes available. > It saves the risk of having to do a pipeline flush because of a > mispredict, but it means in the typical case you're generating heat > calculating results that won't be used; it strikes me as the sort of > feature that'll be added by people who are still thinking "absolute > performance" and haven't yet started thinking "performance per watt". > We have been doing things like that since early 80's that I am familiar with, and I think long befoer that. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:51:29 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Book: Inside the Machine Message-ID: Russell Wallace wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >> I'd be curious to know what those are: while a fair number of bells >> and whistles got thrown into the pot (my impression is due to design >> by committee), Itanic's basic premise is all about simplicity and >> efficiency (let the compiler do most of the work so that out-of-order >> circuitry won't be necessary for good single-threaded performance). > > Yeah. Let's see, it's been a good few years since I read the manual, but > one I vaguely remember is executing both sides of a branch and > discarding the results of one side when the condition becomes available. > It saves the risk of having to do a pipeline flush because of a > mispredict, but it means in the typical case you're generating heat > calculating results that won't be used; it strikes me as the sort of > feature that'll be added by people who are still thinking "absolute > performance" and haven't yet started thinking "performance per watt". Not necessarily: unless you actually shut down unused resources they consume some power even while not 'doing anything', so putting them to productive use may not consume enough more power to offset the performance gain (and idling unused resources was at most a gleam in some engineers' eyes when the basic current Itanic core was designed). - bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 04:24:10 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: expanding shadow size Message-ID: Malcolm Dunnett writes: > I guess it doesn't really matter if the new space is >identical on each disk as it hasn't been written and >so no expectations should be made about getting anything >meaningful from an unwritten block (including getting >the same "garbage" on a subsequent read) - it just seemed like >the "right thing" to do. Whenever I have used a >hardware based raid solution to create a mirrorset the >controller initializes the set by doing a full copy >from one disk to the other - it just seemed that HBVS >would want to do the same thing. It certainly violates the letter of the rule that all shadowset members are identical. If you have high water marking enabled, you can never read any of the bogus blocks with normal I/Os. They are initially outside any file, and then once allocated as part of a file, they are past the high water mark until written, and once written, they are no longer bogus/nonidentical. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:13:02 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: IA64 clusters with eva Message-ID: <4690644E.2F500937@spam.comcast.net> magalettac@hotmail.com wrote: > > Is there a step by step guide on building VMS clusters in an ia64 > environment with dual eva0's. > > Questions I have > > 1. booting the vms server puts me into a fis mode to build VMS > onlocal > attached drives, do I need to do this first before I build on the EVA > disks I would assume so because you would need information on the VMS > system .ie. HBA card info and disks would need to be carved up so I > could do this. I want this to be a homogenous cluster. You'll likely want to be sure that the unit assignments you make on the array are what VMS will see when booted. Be advised, however, that in some cases, HBAs do not work with an unpatched o.s. distribution. > 2. It is a 2 node cluster so do I need a crossover ethernet cable to > be in the mix for cluster comminications like I do with Windows > clusters ? You'll be more likely to want a hub or switch so you can Telent in once you get the IP stack configured and running. > 3. Is the multipath software part of version 8.3 of VMS software or do > I need an add on like we use with Windows platforms. Multipath is built into VMS. Note that an ECO may be needed to bring it up to rev, depending which version of VMS you're installing. > I am VERY familiar with standard ci clusters but this is new to me > any information is greatly apprieciated. You're doing fine, so far. Asking great questions! -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:28:15 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? 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IG5laXRoZXIgaGFzIHRoZXJlIGJlZW4gYW55IGluY2lkZW50cyBvZiBoYWNraW5nIGludG8gT3Bl blZNUyBiYXNlZCBzeXN0ZW1zIHRpbGwgZGF0ZS4iDQoNCg0KUmVnYXJkcw0KDQo= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 20:23:19 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <46902e6d$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: >>> But like VMware, Xen only addresses HW consolidation - not OS >>> consolidation. Yes, it does have some benefits in terms of HW (power, >>> cooling, space etc) savings. However, OS maintenance (managing, >>> patching, licensing, upgrading) is where the big cost savings are >>> as >>> this directly relates to FTE staffing counts - by far the biggest >>> slice of any IT budget. >> OS maintenance big savings ???? >> >> In small departmental wintel file and print servers maybe. >> >> Not in the data centers. > By far the biggest slice of any IT budget is staffing. From an > Operations perspective, the number of staff you have is directly > related to the number of OS images you need to support - not the > number of servers. Remember the FTE per server ratio? That was how I recall it 10-20 years ago when all servers were running a ton of apps. Things has changed. Ops use their time to monitor the apps - or more correctly: to monitor the monitor app that monitors the apps. > Ask any outsourcer for the price of managing 10 physical servers vs > 10 OS images on one physical server and the number for the 10 OS > images on one physical server will be approx 85% of the cost of the > 10 physical servers. Its because they know the work is in managing, > monitoring, licensing, patching and upgrading all of the OS images. Try read drweebs story about a real production environment. The first rule is: don't touch anything. >> Automated. >> >> And not that many systems gets patched anyway. > > Wow - now that is a scary point to make. Have you ever met any RHEL site where they roll patches out on all systems all the time like you imagine ? > For any med-large DC, that is certainly not the case as OPS folks are > constantly struggling with keeping servers up to date. Web tier: yes. Backend systems: nope. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:08:04 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <44b76$46904737$cef8887a$1148@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paul Raulerson [mailto:paul@raulersons.com] > > A few misc links of interest wrt to OpenVMS being used in critical environments: (most do not mention storage size) > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/indiarr/indiarr.pdf (Indian Railways) > "Indian Railways is one of the most advanced ministries in India, with an innovative and extensive IT environment — and a leading-edge reservation system powered by HP AlphaServer™ systems running the HP OpenVMS™ operating system and HP Reliable Transaction Router (RTR) middleware." Mr Main, since you posted a message indicating you had fixed your Microsoft registry key to send plain text messages, I though I would show this subsequent message of yours... It was sent as: From: "Main, Kerry" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: RE: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:28:15 -0400 Organization: Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms Gateway X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List Lines: 118 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Path: beE1!out03b.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!in01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!in03.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!wns14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.71.34.3!newsfeed.cwix.com!mvb.saic.com!info-vax Xref: usenetserver.com comp.os.vms:441816 X-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:36:34 EDT (beE1) PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBQYXVsIFJhdWxlcnNvbiBbbWFp bHRvOnBhdWxAcmF1bGVyc29ucy5jb21dDQo+IFNlbnQ6IEp1bHkgNiwgMjAwNyAxMDo0OCBQTQ0K PiBUbzogSW5mby1WQVhATXZiLlNhaWMuQ29tDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBJcyBWTVMgbG9zaW5n IHRoZSBGaW5hbmNpYWwgU2VjdG9yLCBhbHNvPw0KPiANCj4gRGFybiB0aGF0IGZvcm1hdHRpbmcs IEkgd2FzIHRyeWluZyB0byB0dXJuIGl0IGludG8gcGxhaW4gdGV4dCBhbmQNCj4ganVzdCBwdXJl bHkgbXVmZmVkIGl0LiBUaGF0IGlzIHZlcnkgZ29vZCBuZXdzIEtlcnJ5LCBJIGhhdmUgYmVlbg0K PiBhYmxlIHRvIGlkZW50aWZ5IHRob3NlIGtpbmRzIG9mIGluc3RhbGxhdGlvbnMuIFBsZW50eSBv So yes, it dropped tyhe HTML and sends it as text/plain , but in encoded fashion which really isn't the standard. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:57:41 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <469060B5.1C536C97@spam.comcast.net> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > > >>John Vottero wrote: > >> > >>>"Ron Johnson" wrote in message > >>>news:sNyji.1747$JR6.878@newsfe18.lga... > >>> > >>> > >>>>On 07/06/07 15:05, Paul Raulerson wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Unfortunately, the message you sent arrived in HTML format, and to > >>>>>take it to text means I have to do exactly as you did - cut and > >>>>>paste. Netscape doesn't do HTML or RTF? Let me introduce you to > >>>>>Safari... Anyway, if I did screw up on the cut/paste job below, it > >>>>>wasn't intentional. :) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>And this email that you sent was also HTML. (Netscape has been doing > >>>>HTML mail since at least v2.) > >>>> > >>>>[snip] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>I'm impressed by VMS - even if trying to get it to do simple things > >>>>>can be - complex. For example, talk to a laserjet out a parallel > >>>>>port, and compress the print so as to print 132 column listings in > >>>>>the right size. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Do Alphas and VAXes (much less Itaniacs) even *have* parallel ports? > >>>>We plugged our laser printers into LAT servers. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Or better yet, HOW do you tell initialize to make four or five > >>>>>identical drives into a RAID-0 array and write 64mb stripes on each > >>>>>drive? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Easy: MOUNT/BIND. > >>>> > >>>>VMS has had it since at least 1989, and probably earlier. > >>>> > >>> > >>>MOUNT/BIND creates a bound volume set which is NOT the same as RAID0. > >>>Creating a RAID0 array from two disks will give you a volume with twice > >>>the space and roughly twice the transfer rate of a single disk. A bound > >>>volume set will give you twice the space but very little (if any) > >>>performance improvement. > >>> > >> > >>$ MOUNT /BIND > >>does create RAID sets. It needs more qualifiers; e.g. > >>$ MOUNT /BIND DSA123 /SHADOW=(......) > > > > > > That's still only a volume-set made up of multiple shadow-sets, not RAID-0. > > > > No, that mounts and, if necessary, creates a shadow set. Forgive me for > not looking up the exact incantation to create a RAID-0 set. I don't > have the RAID software handy, I never needed it for my poor old > Alphastation 200. . . . It has been many years since I worked with a > system that had the necessary licenses. INITIALIZE won't create RAID-0, though there was at one time host-based striping software available for both VAX and Alpha, if I'm not to badly mistaken. /BIND is not necessary to create shadow-sets, only for volume-sets. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:59:19 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <46906117.2139AE63@spam.comcast.net> "P. Sture" wrote: > [snip] > There's a pretty comprehensive article entitled "Configuring Mail > Clients to Send Plain ASCII Text". It covers all manner of clients: > > http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Is it new enough to include Safari? Seems we have some Safari users here. The results so far have been at least as unpredictable as LookOut! + Exchange. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:02:06 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: <469061BE.AAB8CADA@spam.comcast.net> "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > > Sent: July 7, 2007 2:39 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? > > > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > JF, > > > > > > Not sure what is wrong with your client or my client, but others > > have > > > reported being able to read my responses with no issues. Wrapping > > > included. > > > > > > The Outback 2007 client I use says Internet plain text format. > > > > *I* was able to read your post, I use Mozilla on VMS (aka: > > Netscape). > > However, I noticed you were not in a normal font, so I did a "view > > source" of your post and saw you were in base64 encoding. > > Ok, the plot thickens .. after Paul provided the earlier pointer on > plain text formatting, it led to the following Microsoft KB on the types > of plain text formatting: > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q278134 > "How to Override the Encoding Type by using a Registry Key" > > Unfortunately there was no InternetMailTextEncoding key in Outlokk 2007, > but there was a key called "AutoFormatPlainText" - I modified it to = 3, > so we shall see if it makes any difference in my subsequent replies. So far, so good... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:05:08 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: <46906274.9701DD6F@spam.comcast.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > > On 07/07/07 10:40, David J Dachtera wrote: > > Bill Todd wrote: > >> David J Dachtera wrote: > >>> Didier_Toulouse wrote: > >>>> HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY to my US Friends ! > >>> UFB... Even here we can see how hated the US has become since WWII. > >> Actually, most of the hate developed only after our post-9/11 insanity > >> emerged (despite the fact that some of our actions in Kosovo were > >> considered excessive as well). > >> > >> Amazing how over a half-century of good will and (for the most part) > >> respect can be squandered so quickly, if a nation puts its mind to it. > > > > Saw a bumper sticker I liked: > > > > There's a village in Texas that's missing an idiot. > > That's soooo 2001. > > When Boob goes (went?) on his religious rants, he was shouted down. > But when OT topics are politically fashionable, it's ok? I'm not "attacking" anyone's politics, just making an ass of myself (at which I do excel, as most everyone here knows). My original post in this thread was meant to be facetious. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 20:37:15 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Printing pre-setup Message-ID: <%PSji.19351$Fc.15251@attbi_s21> Paul Raulerson wrote: > Hey, thank you John! Appreciate the instructions. I found the > Ask-The-Wizard stuff, and had no trouble pointing it to a LPD queue that is > serving the network. (I missed the idea of the device control library > though... I'm assuming that "library" here means a directory with some data > modules in it... but I suppose it could be an objet module library too. :) A library on VMS is a file that is made of of sections known as modules that usually were once separate file. There are several types of libraries, text libraries, help libraries, object libraries and image libraries. I would have to check the documentation to see if there are any other types that I might have missed. The libraries can also be compressed. There is a Librarian utility for maintaining such libraries and APIs so that applications can use them. For some types of libraries, extra keys are provided for faster finding of the desired modules, like a small database. The ar utility on UNIX is similar to the librarian utility. In the GNV product, the ar utility is simply a wrapper to the VMS librarian and can not actually handle UNIX archive files. The print queue software on VMS can use the text library known as a device control library to store modules that can be sent to printer before jobs, between files, and in some cases between pages. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:07:45 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Message-ID: <000801c7c0ca$1aab4ff0$5001efd0$@com> Hey, thank you John! Appreciate the instructions. I found the Ask-The-Wizard stuff, and had no trouble pointing it to a LPD queue that is serving the network. (I missed the idea of the device control library though... I'm assuming that "library" here means a directory with some data modules in it... but I suppose it could be an objet module library too. :) Thanks again! -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network] > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 12:51 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, > also?) > > Paul Raulerson wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.no@spam.comcast.net] > >> > >>Paul Raulerson wrote: > >> > > > >>>complex. For example, talk to a laserjet out a parallel port, > > Worked very well the few times I tried it. I generally used terminal > servers or printers with network cards. > > >>Not really part of VMS's primary focus, but a good point, none the > >>less. > >> > >> > >>>and compress the print so as to print 132 column listings in > >>>the right size. > > Not two hard to do. > > >>I find setting the orientation to landscape, selecting fixed-pitch > font > >>such as Courier and pitch to circa 12cpi to be rather effective. > > > > Actually, I want line printer font at 16.66cpi, 8 lines per inch, and > 84 > > lines on a portrait page. I know the PCL to set that up, and indeed, > I know > > how to do it PostScript. What I don't know how to do is to tell VMS > that is > > what I want. It ain't BSD style LPR/LPD, CUSP, InfoPrint, RSA, BARR, > or any > > other system I am aware of. > > > And I tend to start simple. One little printer, one little port... :) > > I and others have posted that information before. I think that there > is > also information in the Ask The Wizard archive at HP. > > The basic steps to do this are documented in the system manager guide. > > First you create a device control text library, with each module doing > a > specific function. I use a different one for each model that I have to > use, and one with empty modules for printers that can not be remotely > programmed. > > You have a module for reset (to what should be default) and a module > for > each specific setting. > > While I needed separate device control files for LN03, LN05/6, and > DCPS, > I have only needed one device control library for all PCL printers. > > Then you create a print queue to that printer and associate the device > control library with that queue. You can have it always do the reset > module between jobs. > > Then you create a set of forms for each style of output that you will > want, making sure that they all have compatible sheet definitions. > > By having separate device control libraries for each printer model that > have all the model names, you can then use the same form name and get > the desired result on different models of printers. > > For network printers, I also use "dummy" LTA devices that are spooled > to > the print queue, so that I can redirect output streams to them from > applications that are not print queue aware. You can also access a > spooled device through DECNET file notation. > > For network printers, you can also have multiple print queues pointing > at them with different defaults. This is handy for software that knows > how to specify a print queue, but not the attributes. > > Some gotchas: > > 1. On your test print page to verify your settings, put a test line of > characters separated by tabs underneath a set of numbers making a > ruler. > The tabs (unless you specifically changed this) should be at every 8 > characters. > If this does not happen, then you need to find the flaw in your escape > sequence. This has not been an issue for me on PCL, but has been an > issue on LN03, LN05/6, and the DCPS/CPS ANSI translator. > > 2. If you share a printer with a certain PC based operating system, it > may at the start of each and every print job change the power up > defaults of the printer, particularly the margins and the duplex > settings, so that a simple reset to power up will not restore the > printer to the expected parameters. > > 3. Watch the sheet definition, margins, and wrap settings on your > forms. > > -John > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:17:55 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Message-ID: <46906573.25936540@spam.comcast.net> Paul Raulerson wrote: > > Hey, thank you John! Appreciate the instructions. I found the > Ask-The-Wizard stuff, and had no trouble pointing it to a LPD queue that is > serving the network. (I missed the idea of the device control library > though... I'm assuming that "library" here means a directory with some data > modules in it... but I suppose it could be an objet module library too. :) As Richard points out, you need a text library. See the HELP for the LIBRARIAN command. A simple example, assuming some .TXT files in my current directory: $ LIBR/CRE/TEXT MYLIB * ...will create MYLIB.TLB and insert into it all the text files in my current directory matching the wildcard filepsec "*.TXT;". -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:14:30 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Printing pre-setup (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) also?)al Message-ID: <46901E56.7090007@comcast.net> Paul Raulerson wrote: > Hey, thank you John! Appreciate the instructions. I found the > Ask-The-Wizard stuff, and had no trouble pointing it to a LPD queue that is > serving the network. (I missed the idea of the device control library > though... I'm assuming that "library" here means a directory with some data > modules in it... but I suppose it could be an objet module library too. :) NO! It's a Text Library; e.g. MUMBLE.TLB. It will almost always have a reset module. You will need modules to select fonts, and sizes. You CAN have a module with any or all of the control sequences your printer recognizes. You might have such a TLB for HP Laser Jet printers and another for DEC LN0x printers. You can have as many as you need to support all the different printers you have. It helps to use standardized names for modules with identical functions for different printers ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:09:03 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Message-ID: <3FQji.2177$Xa3.1531@attbi_s22> Paul Raulerson wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.no@spam.comcast.net] >> >>Paul Raulerson wrote: >>>Or better yet, HOW >>>do you tell initialize to make four or five identical drives into a >>> RAID-0 array and write 64mb stripes on each drive? > > VMS does not do this? Is there some underlying technical reason? Raid-0 > striping provides significant advantages in terms of IO balancing and speed. > I do NOT like Shadowing - waste of expensive DASD. I tend to configure disks > into arrays of 8, 5+2 plus one spare. I get the speed I want, especially in > read intensive online and batch applications, and I get data protection. I > have had DASD units die off, and not notice it until the CE came in to > replace the thing. I'm very sure HP units have the same capabilities. The striping product is an add on for VMS. I do not have experience with it. Getting a backplane RAID controller may be lower cost, and it may also provide a lot faster access because of the additional battery backed up cache. >>>This is idiotically simple in say, Linux or Windows. And painfully >>>difficult to dig out of the manuals. Mostly because the manauals >>>seem to assume that *everyone* knows how to do that anyway... You do not appreciate help text that tells you a GUI control adjusts a parameter, but do not explain anywhere what the parameter actually does or why you would want to ever change it? :-) I have not used software raid on LINUX. I have tried it on Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 on test systems. It created RAID sets quite well, and they survived the failure. It was the mystic rituals that you had to follow when the raid set containing the drive 0 (boot volume) was degraded and a reboot was required which were different than the mystic rituals that were needed after the drive was replaced to get rebuilt. And I have never seen any documentation for those rituals other than what I wrote up personally as a result of those experiments. The rituals also varied considerably based on what disk adapter was in use. Much of the problem was directly caused by the BIOS limitations in the PC and in the optional BIOS features of the disk adapter. Those issues will be common to LINUX. As a result of those tests, I would only recommend using hardware RAID on PC type hardware in a shop where system uptime is important, and that I would not want to have to have an expert on hand just to replace a failed disk drive at 3:30 am in the morning. >>Well, again, it can be possible, but recommendable is another issue. > > I just want the speed right now, not the data protection. What I need to > protect data wise goes onto multiple redundant backups, processed every > night of course. And I make archive copies at strategic points as well. And how much time to you have to do a restore? -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:27:23 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Message-ID: <000901c7c0cc$d88ab9a0$89a02ce0$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network] > > The striping product is an add on for VMS. I do not have experience > with it. > > Getting a backplane RAID controller may be lower cost, and it may also > provide a lot faster access because of the additional battery backed up > cache. > Ah HAH! NOW this makes sense. I found references to it all over creation, but did not pick up it was a separate product. Yep, a RAID controller is a much better solution, but this is primarily a learning experience for me, and also, I am working on configurations for small-scale servers and such. Trying to pick up a couple years worth of education in a few months too, since I have a time limit looming at me. > I have not used software raid on LINUX. > It's trivial to setup, but pretty much everyone has moved on to using Logical Volume Managers. You can build some really large disk areas that way, and stripe them as you wish. > I have tried it on Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 on test systems. 'Yikes! NT4?! Run away - it was not all that stable on Windows 2000, but it worked. Windows 2003 R2 has gotten pretty stable with that. Caveat: Our windows systems (at work) all boot off the SAN, and we build boot partitions out of raid chunks the Windows system sees as SCSI targets. This obviously has a lot of advantages, not the least of which is if a Blade fails, we simply switch the disks to another blade and IPL. This is way above small shop capabilities right now, though I think it will not be long before it is there. > > It created RAID sets quite well, and they survived the failure. > > It was the mystic rituals that you had to follow when the raid set > containing the drive 0 (boot volume) was degraded and a reboot was > required which were different than the mystic rituals that were needed > after the drive was replaced to get rebuilt. > > And I have never seen any documentation for those rituals other than > what I wrote up personally as a result of those experiments. The > rituals also varied considerably based on what disk adapter was in use. > > Much of the problem was directly caused by the BIOS limitations in the > PC and in the optional BIOS features of the disk adapter. Those issues > will be common to LINUX. > Actually, Linux does not really use the PC BIOS, and of course, the hardware adapter is going to be a problem for any OS. > As a result of those tests, I would only recommend using hardware RAID > on PC type hardware in a shop where system uptime is important, and > that > I would not want to have to have an expert on hand just to replace a > failed disk drive at 3:30 am in the morning. > I strongly recommend no local disks in PC's at all myself; they just lead to trouble unless they are loaded with a thin client OS to aim them towards a terminal server of some kind. :) But I do agree with you entirely; hardware raid in a desktop PC is problematical. I would much rather boot them off the network and stream applications to them. (Well, I would rather not stream anything to them but display, but that doesn't always work, when you have weird hardware to support or something. ADP software comes to mind...) > >>Well, again, it can be possible, but recommendable is another issue. > > > > I just want the speed right now, not the data protection. What I need > to > > protect data wise goes onto multiple redundant backups, processed > every > > night of course. And I make archive copies at strategic points as > well. > > And how much time to you have to do a restore? Haven't timed it on the Alpha system here yet, and don't have a Itanium system here yet either, but for example, to backup the entire development source from the Linux and Mainframe here each night takes about 20 mins, and to restore takes a little less - about 16 mins. Data takes several hours to do a full dump/restore on. But on the other hand, I have fully redundant copies (about 60 of them in rotation, but I am paranoid...) and can easily restore single files from just about any date. At work of course, I use MUCH faster hardware, but I also backup a whole lot more data per day. I employ a similar philosophy there. Disaster recovery backups take me more time, but I also have multiple sets of those hanging around, JIC! I can take bare hardware and rebuild the systems to operational in six hours flat, even counting the time it takes to format a whole bunch of DASD. > > -John > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 21:00:20 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Message-ID: Paul Raulerson wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network] >> > >>I have tried it on Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 on test systems. > > >>It created RAID sets quite well, and they survived the failure. >> >>It was the mystic rituals that you had to follow when the raid set >>containing the drive 0 (boot volume) was degraded and a reboot was >>required which were different than the mystic rituals that were needed >>after the drive was replaced to get rebuilt. >> >>And I have never seen any documentation for those rituals other than >>what I wrote up personally as a result of those experiments. The >>rituals also varied considerably based on what disk adapter was in use. >> >>Much of the problem was directly caused by the BIOS limitations in the >>PC and in the optional BIOS features of the disk adapter. Those issues >>will be common to LINUX. >> > > Actually, Linux does not really use the PC BIOS, Really? How is the disk selected for booting when you power up or reset the system? > and of course, the hardware adapter is going to be a problem for any OS. Which updates the above BIOS as a plugin during the initial power up reset sequence. The only way around that is to use a different boot flash ROM. And those are motherboard specific. And as you know that was before such things as a CDROM or network boot were standard on PC servers. > >>As a result of those tests, I would only recommend using hardware RAID >>on PC type hardware in a shop where system uptime is important, and >>that >>I would not want to have to have an expert on hand just to replace a >>failed disk drive at 3:30 am in the morning. >> > I strongly recommend no local disks in PC's at all myself; they just lead to > trouble unless they are loaded with a thin client OS to aim them towards a > terminal server of some kind. :) > But I do agree with you entirely; hardware raid in a desktop PC is > problematical. I would much rather boot them off the network and stream > applications to them. (Well, I would rather not stream anything to them but > display, but that doesn't always work, when you have weird hardware to > support or something. ADP software comes to mind...) These were not desktop systems, they were production servers. The desktop systems were consider disposable. This was before the days that the BIOS contained a network boot as standard, so a floppy was used instead which then will reload either a specific snapshot or a generic setup. The VAX and ALPHA systems of that era could all boot off of the network, and we had an appliance known as an infoserver which could both serve maintenance images, and also serve tape drives for a network backup. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 16:33:00 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) Message-ID: <000c01c7c0de$64d51f70$2e7f5e50$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network] > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 4:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: RAID (was: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also?) > > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network] > >> > > > >>I have tried it on Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 on test systems. > > > > > >>It created RAID sets quite well, and they survived the failure. > >> > >>It was the mystic rituals that you had to follow when the raid set > >>containing the drive 0 (boot volume) was degraded and a reboot was > >>required which were different than the mystic rituals that were > needed > >>after the drive was replaced to get rebuilt. > >> > >>And I have never seen any documentation for those rituals other than > >>what I wrote up personally as a result of those experiments. The > >>rituals also varied considerably based on what disk adapter was in > use. > >> > >>Much of the problem was directly caused by the BIOS limitations in > the > >>PC and in the optional BIOS features of the disk adapter. Those > issues > >>will be common to LINUX. > >> > > > > Actually, Linux does not really use the PC BIOS, > > Really? How is the disk selected for booting when you power up or > reset > the system? It uses the BIOS to load LILO or GRUB, which then switches the BIOS out of the equation and proceeds merrily along with whatever it wants to do. This has been pretty standard on PC systems since the Xenix days (1980's) and has caused no end of trouble until Linux came along. With a quarter of a million "developers" out there for Linux, things get fixed pretty fast. :) > > > and of course, the hardware adapter is going to be a problem for any > OS. > > Which updates the above BIOS as a plugin during the initial power up > reset sequence. > Doesn't matter- similar to VMS in that once the OS loads, it takes over any device manipulation by loading it's own drivers. > The only way around that is to use a different boot flash ROM. And > those are motherboard specific. > > And as you know that was before such things as a CDROM or network boot > were standard on PC servers. > > > > >>As a result of those tests, I would only recommend using hardware > RAID > >>on PC type hardware in a shop where system uptime is important, and > >>that > >>I would not want to have to have an expert on hand just to replace a > >>failed disk drive at 3:30 am in the morning. > >> > > > I strongly recommend no local disks in PC's at all myself; they just > lead to > > trouble unless they are loaded with a thin client OS to aim them > towards a > > terminal server of some kind. :) > > > But I do agree with you entirely; hardware raid in a desktop PC is > > problematical. I would much rather boot them off the network and > stream > > applications to them. (Well, I would rather not stream anything to > them but > > display, but that doesn't always work, when you have weird hardware > to > > support or something. ADP software comes to mind...) > > These were not desktop systems, they were production servers. > > The desktop systems were consider disposable. This was before the days > that the BIOS contained a network boot as standard, so a floppy was > used > instead which then will reload either a specific snapshot or a generic > setup. > > The VAX and ALPHA systems of that era could all boot off of the > network, > and we had an appliance known as an infoserver which could both serve > maintenance images, and also serve tape drives for a network backup. > In that era, we used diskless Sun Workstations, and Burroughs BTOS/CTOS computers to just avoid the whole issue. Or we used terminals. PC's were not very common really, until the early 1990s I guess. And for quite a few years after that, we used them as not much more than a terminal to the host computers. -Paul > -John > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:32:43 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: SEARCH: expected result? Message-ID: In article <468FB54F.A9E0FF2D@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Zero-length records contain no data to compare. Yes, but the comparison is with something else of zero length. 0=0, right? Note that SEARCH does count an empty line as a record. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:08:52 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SEARCH: expected result? Message-ID: <46906354.2B567716@spam.comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <468FB54F.A9E0FF2D@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > Zero-length records contain no data to compare. > > Yes, but the comparison is with something else of zero length. 0=0, > right? Note that SEARCH does count an empty line as a record. However, if there is nothing to compare, why attempt a comparison? The results would be misleading, no? Also, zero bytes of data is quite different from either a zero length string or a null byte. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:44:34 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Send Mail at specific time Message-ID: What is the best (simplest) way to send a mail message at a specific time in the future? VMSMail on AXP 7.3-1 thru 8.3 -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 20:00:03 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Send Mail at specific time Message-ID: <469028f8$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > What is the best (simplest) way to send a mail message at a specific time > in the future? VMSMail on AXP 7.3-1 thru 8.3 Send the mail from a COM file and submit that to a batch queue to run at a specific time. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 21:06:38 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Send Mail at specific time Message-ID: <4690389E.7070309@comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > What is the best (simplest) way to send a mail message at a specific time > in the future? VMSMail on AXP 7.3-1 thru 8.3 > > $ MAIL /SEND in a batch job submitted with /AFTER. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:09:14 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Send Mail at specific time Message-ID: <1183856954.492465.222650@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jul 7, 7:44 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > What is the best (simplest) way to send a mail message at a specific time > in the future? VMSMail on AXP 7.3-1 thru 8.3 > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com Tom, I concur with Arne and Richard. Indeed, it is the very solution that I use when I want a mailing to occur at a specific time. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:12:20 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Send Mail at specific time Message-ID: <578df$46904837$cef8887a$1148@TEKSAVVY.COM> Tom Linden wrote: > What is the best (simplest) way to send a mail message at a specific time > in the future? VMSMail on AXP 7.3-1 thru 8.3 Another option to consider is NMAIL which I beleive is on one of the freeware archives available at http://www.hp.com/go/vms This is a foreign transport that was used internally within Digital. It was designed to deliver emails to decnet nodes that were temporarily off-line by queueing it to resend later. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:21:07 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Send Mail at specific time Message-ID: <46906633.475F5D56@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > Tom Linden wrote: > > What is the best (simplest) way to send a mail message at a specific time > > in the future? VMSMail on AXP 7.3-1 thru 8.3 > > Another option to consider is NMAIL which I beleive is on one of the > freeware archives available at http://www.hp.com/go/vms > > This is a foreign transport that was used internally within Digital. It > was designed to deliver emails to decnet nodes that were temporarily > off-line by queueing it to resend later. Be careful with it, however. Last time I tried it it caused an Invalid Exception crash. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 2007 15:01:17 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: ssh stack dumps on new V8.3 install Message-ID: <4zxqzD3J5R55@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "John E. Malmberg" writes: > Another issue is incompletely removing users, causing old identifiers to > match different new user names. I resolve the issues there by never > removing users, just disabling the accounts. As long as there is > anything on the system that could be referencing that identifier, > including log files, the SYSUAF record should be maintained. Looking at NIST Special Publication 800-53, Revision 1, IA-4 says the organization must be "disabling the user identifier after...", but it also says the organization must be "archiving user identifiers". To me, that means usernames must be DISUSERed but never REMOVED, in order to prevent reuse and also to allow audit analysis to work. Likewise for UIC identifiers in the RIGHTSLIST. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 2007 17:38:54 -0500 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: XMODEM for VMS Message-ID: <14yeCbRMTZly@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <468FB4AD.4575432D@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > George Cornelius wrote: >> Actually, Mark, when it comes to ftp transfers UCX has traditionally >> done a better job than Multinet at transferring pure binary. I believe >> it was in picking up .OBJ files off DECUS tapes at your site that I >> most commonly saw the problem: Multinet considered "binary" to mean >> that only the _content_ was transferred and no count information - >> so the arriving .OBJ had no record information and no means of >> reconstructing it. Multinet to Multinet tended to work because >> Multinet had its own method of transferring the VMS attribute >> information. I could track down the thread here on EISNER in >> which I raised the issue and had one of the TGV folks admit it was >> a problem for them. > > For various reasons, there are few ways to reliably transfer VMS .OBJ files > other than via DECnet or physical media, unless those .OBJs are first > "encapsulated" in .OLB or .ZIP files. True. But under UCX FTP, the equivalent to the "binary" command was/is SET TYPE IMAGE, and a pure image of the file was what you got. Quite useful even when going to a Unix or Windows machine first, as long as you knew enough of what the file attributes were to use $ SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES or equivalent at the destination VMS host. In the DECUS Sig tape case it was rather maddening because I had no way to tell the ftp server to please just give me all the bits, other than transferring to another Multinet host such as EISNER, then tweaking the attributes or encapsulating the file before passing it on. -- George Cornelius cornelius(at)eisner.decus.org cornelius(at)mayo.edu > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.369 ************************