INFO-VAX Sat, 14 Jul 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 381 Contents: Re: Cobol Link Issue... Re: Disaster Proof is on YouTube Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: EDT Replacement Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Re: FTSO/FASTCopy replacement Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Re: Itanium serial ports Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) RE: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Re: Solved: SAN switch 2/8 on MSA1000 - cannot connect to serial of rj-45 port Re: UK report says data protection breaches "out of control" Re: UK report says data protection breaches "out of control" Re: UK report says data protection breaches "out of control" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:54:15 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: Cobol Link Issue... Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W63600527_30168_1184363655 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--=_vm_0016_W63600527_30168_1184363655" ----=_vm_0016_W63600527_30168_1184363655 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kerry - whatever they pay you & John, and the rest of you guys, it just is not enough. :) Thanks -Paul ----=_vm_0016_W63600527_30168_1184363655 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kerry - whatever they pay you & John, and the rest of you&nb= sp;guys, it just is not enough. :)

 

Thanks

-Paul

 

----=_vm_0016_W63600527_30168_1184363655-- ----=_vm_0011_W63600527_30168_1184363655-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 04:24:12 GMT From: "Paul Dembry" Subject: Re: Disaster Proof is on YouTube Message-ID: Why not just cut the cable? Since HP has so much "spare" equipment, perhaps I could take some of it off of their hands? Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:59:23 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Martin Krischik wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > >> And the lines are all less than 255 char. > > No the last editor with a 255 char limit must have been on my Atari > 130 XE 8bit computer and that's is probably 15 years ago. And EDT is older than that. -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:37:55 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <4697C683.9060403@comcast.net> Martin Krischik wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > > >>And the lines are all less than 255 char. > > > ROFL! How many years ago that this has been an issue on any editor I use. > Ahh the last I remember is EPM on OS/2 but with a 2499 character limit. Strange how I almost never need to edit a file with more than 255 characters per line! Text files tend to max out at 132 characters since that's the most you can print per line on most printers. I suppose there are exceptions but I would not need to remove my shoes to count the number of such files I needed to edit. Issues with the terminal driver might make editing such a file difficult even in cases where the editor supports it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:48:57 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <1184352537.220767.80710@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jul 13, 2:37 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Martin Krischik wrote: > > Ron Johnson wrote: > > >>And the lines are all less than 255 char. > > > ROFL! How many years ago that this has been an issue on any editor I use. > > Ahh the last I remember is EPM on OS/2 but with a 2499 character limit. > > Strange how I almost never need to edit a file with more than 255 > characters per line! Text files tend to max out at 132 characters since > that's the most you can print per line on most printers. I suppose > there are exceptions but I would not need to remove my shoes to count > the number of such files I needed to edit. > > Issues with the terminal driver might make editing such a file difficult > even in cases where the editor supports it. Also, EDT has SET NOTRUNCATE which allows you to see an entire too- long-for-the-screen line at the same time (no need to shift left and right). AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:31:30 GMT From: Chris Sharman Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: Martin Krischik wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > >> And the lines are all less than 255 char. > > ROFL! How many years ago that this has been an issue on any editor I use. > Ahh the last I remember is EPM on OS/2 but with a 2499 character limit. > > No the last editor with a 255 char limit must have been on my Atari 130 XE > 8bit computer and that's is probably 15 years ago. My commonest problem is postscript (text) files that have been created on a Mac (usually by Illustrator, Quark, or Indesign), and contain embedded artwork from other sources and customers. The absolute no-no on VMS is binary content - those are just broken (can't successfully get them to a printer). But even the ones which don't have binary data, frequently have a mix of stream_cr and stream_lf records, so that whichever format I choose to read the file in, I risk large chunks of data without a correct line break. I had one today that had records around 100kb size embedded, whatever I did to it - resorted to writing Pascal to read & rewrite it, using the undocumented $modify to switch between stream_cr & stream_lf as I went along, which brought it down to a more respectable 300-odd bytes. I'd have quite liked a stream_any format! I switched to "set keypad edt" when eve came out, and haven't looked back - though I'd agree that the eve native keypad was perversely non-functional - presumably designed for tailoring. Have my own sections for eve & lse (and environment) installed cluster-wide, doing things like a poor man's notes in tpu. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:20:44 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: On 07/13/07 13:37, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Martin Krischik wrote: >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> >> >>> And the lines are all less than 255 char. >> >> >> ROFL! How many years ago that this has been an issue on any editor I use. >> Ahh the last I remember is EPM on OS/2 but with a 2499 character limit. > > Strange how I almost never need to edit a file with more than 255 > characters per line! Text files tend to max out at 132 characters since > that's the most you can print per line on most printers. I suppose > there are exceptions but I would not need to remove my shoes to count > the number of such files I needed to edit. > > Issues with the terminal driver might make editing such a file difficult > even in cases where the editor supports it. EVE lets you SHIFT RIGHT and SHIFT LEFT to see extra-long lines. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:24:17 -0700 From: William Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <1184365457.905476.112540@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> I have a version of microemacs with source available as emacs.tar.bz2 at http://williambader.com/pat/pat.html It has keypad bindings similar to EDT on VAX/VMS. I haven't built it on VAX/VMS for a while, but the archive has the COM files. It saves the fab when it opens files and tries to restore the file attributes when it saves file. I have used it to modify large binary files without corrupting them. It also builds on most unix-like systems, so you can telnet to unix systems from a vt100-like terminal and still use the vt100 keypad. William Bader http://williambader.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:11:22 -0700 From: Joe Bloggs Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:11:23 -0400, JF Mezei wrote: >Farrell, Michael wrote: >> As for large file editing, I have edited a 1GB file successfully. > >With TPU, you need to have a pgflquo that can contain the file you are >editing (plus the TPU software). TPU reads the whole file in memory >when you start it. > >EDT would only read what you needed for the display. > >One an all mighty microvax II, this made a big difference for large >files. On more recent systems, TPU is far less of a page file hog than >Mozilla which requires gigabytes just to display a silly window. can experiment later, but iirc, for TPU, specifying a work-file and no file on the command-line, avoids the greedy page-file usage. my recollection was that the work-file was sized at (or proportion) to your account WS quotas. $ edit/tpu /work= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:45:55 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <1184377555.939207.156790@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On Jul 13, 8:11 pm, Joe Bloggs wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:11:23 -0400, JF Mezei > > wrote: > >Farrell, Michael wrote: > >> As for large file editing, I have edited a 1GB file successfully. > > >With TPU, you need to have a pgflquo that can contain the file you are > >editing (plus the TPU software). TPU reads the whole file in memory > >when you start it. > > >EDT would only read what you needed for the display. > > >One an all mighty microvax II, this made a big difference for large > >files. On more recent systems, TPU is far less of a page file hog than > >Mozilla which requires gigabytes just to display a silly window. > > can experiment later, but iirc, for TPU, specifying a work-file > and no file on the command-line, avoids the greedy page-file usage. > > my recollection was that the work-file was sized at (or proportion) > to your account WS quotas. > > $ edit/tpu /work= My recollection (from years ago) was that the workfile doesn't work. I'll try it again soon. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:01:49 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <46982E8D.38D519AF@spam.comcast.net> "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > > Is there a free or low cost replacement for EDT on VMS 8.3? Preferably one > that can be configured to use the same 10-key keypad (Gold) keys as EDT. I agree with those who maintain the EDT is as usable as it ever was. I do wish TPU/EVE could process a "large" file without reading the entire thing into memory, though. EDT mode of EVE is quite usable for me, though I use it only when EDT pukes on long records. To my mind, a file with records of that length or longer are not suitable for use with a text editor. Your mileage may vary significantly. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:17:44 -0400 From: John Sauter Subject: Re: EDT Replacement Message-ID: <1I6dneujcurUrwXbnZ2dnUVZ_uTinZ2d@comcast.com> Rob Brown wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Martin Krischik wrote: > >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> >>> And the lines are all less than 255 char. >> >> No the last editor with a 255 char limit must have been on my Atari >> 130 XE 8bit computer and that's is probably 15 years ago. > > And EDT is older than that. > > EDT version 1 goes back to the late 1970s, but EDT version 3 was written in the mid-1980s. John Sauter, EDT version 3 project leader ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:23:13 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Message-ID: In article , Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Terrie Linker wrote: > > Anyone out there tried building Perl modules on OpenVMS Itanium? > > We need to build quite a few of them, and many have errors. > > Just wondered if this is something anyone has experience with. > > "Many errors"? OpenVMS I64 version? Compiler versions? ECOs? Error > message(s)? Module(s)? Command(s) used? > > My experience was that the Perl stuff typically "just built". > > You did need to have the Perl environment set up correctly, and be > familiar with a few of the various Perl-isms. > > Check the VMS Perl mailing list and its archives? > > As for your question, might you post some details on your adventures > into Perl on OpenVMS? Yeah, what he said. I'll just further note that it really does matter what modules you are building. There are literally thousands available and they vary widely in portability (or lack thereof). And yes, there is a low-volume mailing list for all things Perl and VMS that anyone may join by sending mail to vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT org. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:30:30 -0400 From: Terrie Linker Subject: Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Message-ID: Craig A. Berry wrote: > In article , > Stephen Hoffman wrote: > >> Terrie Linker wrote: >>> Anyone out there tried building Perl modules on OpenVMS Itanium? >>> We need to build quite a few of them, and many have errors. >>> Just wondered if this is something anyone has experience with. >> "Many errors"? OpenVMS I64 version? Compiler versions? ECOs? Error >> message(s)? Module(s)? Command(s) used? >> >> My experience was that the Perl stuff typically "just built". >> >> You did need to have the Perl environment set up correctly, and be >> familiar with a few of the various Perl-isms. >> >> Check the VMS Perl mailing list and its archives? >> >> As for your question, might you post some details on your adventures >> into Perl on OpenVMS? > > Yeah, what he said. I'll just further note that it really does matter > what modules you are building. There are literally thousands available > and they vary widely in portability (or lack thereof). > > And yes, there is a low-volume mailing list for all things Perl and VMS > that anyone may join by sending mail to vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT > org. > Thanks. We're on OpenVMS 8.3 (on Itanium). Here are three modules we're having trouble with: html-parser xml-libxml-common xml-sax We were using mms, but it seems to just not work. Moved to mmk, and making more progress. We have recently upgraded to Perl 5.8.6 (from using 5.6.1). Errors vary wildly - many appear to be general "make" errors, as if the makefiles are just not complete/right. Terrie Linker ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 20:04:52 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Message-ID: Craig A. Berry wrote: > And yes, there is a low-volume mailing list for all things Perl and VMS > that anyone may join by sending mail to vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT > org. How did you know what I was about to ask? Thanks, Zane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:07:37 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Message-ID: In article , healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Craig A. Berry wrote: > > And yes, there is a low-volume mailing list for all things Perl and VMS > > that anyone may join by sending mail to vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT > > org. > > How did you know what I was about to ask? > He obviously has his read-ahead bit set. :-) -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:14:07 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Experience building Perl modules on VMS Itanium? Message-ID: In article , Terrie Linker wrote: > Thanks. We're on OpenVMS 8.3 (on Itanium). Here are three modules > we're having trouble with: > > html-parser > xml-libxml-common > xml-sax > > We were using mms, but it seems to just not work. Moved to mmk, > and making more progress. I've found the same thing when it comes to the generated descrip.mms files Perl spits out. The only other general advice I can think of at the moment is to rename the directories you unpack from the tarballs so they don't have dots in them (turn Foo-0^01.DIR into Foo-0_01.DIR), and be sure to read the VMS-specific documentation: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlvms.html > We have recently upgraded to Perl 5.8.6 > (from using 5.6.1). Errors vary wildly - many appear to be > general "make" errors, as if the makefiles are just not complete/right. HTML::Parser looks pretty straightforward and I'm pretty sure I've built that one before. XML::LibXML::Common, on the other hand, goes through a lot of OS-specific stuff to locate your libxml2 libraries and headers; you might need to just hard-wire the correct locations into its %config hash in the Makefile.PL. Then you may have to worry about whether your libxml2 libraries were built with the same compiler options as Perl (floating point options, name mangling, etc.). -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:59:15 -0700 From: Pierre Subject: Re: FTSO/FASTCopy replacement Message-ID: <1184363955.572085.82540@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> > > yes. we are currently using FTSO but we exprient some problems with > > it > > (for ex. sometimes copy jobq vanish) and would like some more > > robust and supported product. > > Are you sure you are not running into some process quota issues ? as each job is a separate entry in FTSO batch queue, to what kind of process quota issue are you thinking of ? Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 18:29:42 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: <5fpuklF3e5f3lU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] >> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: July 13, 2007 12:13 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? >> >> In article >> > p.net>, >> "Main, Kerry" writes: >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] >> >> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> >> Sent: July 12, 2007 8:01 PM >> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> >> Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? >> >> >> >> In article >> <1184282066.484375.205310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, >> >> Doug Phillips writes: >> >> > >> >> > Since "super computing" can involve different needs depending >> >> upon the >> >> > application, VMS certainly is worth considering for any CS lab >> >> that >> >> > wishes to offer a broad spectrum of experience to the student. >> >> >> >> Sorry guy, that ship has sailed. >> >> >> >> bill >> >> >> > >> > >> > Well, based on your previous comments, OpenVMS handles all of the >> mission c=3D >> > ritical business admin, scheduling and financial stuff in your >> University (=3D >> > Banner), so other readers on this list need to understand that >> you are only=3D >> > talking about one part of your specific environment. >> >> And what was the original poster talking about? >> > > I just wanted to ensure that readers understand that OpenVMS plays a big pa= > rt in your University. You only support the technical side, so the Admin si= > de is not important to you as it is likely run by another group. They all know that. The point is the HP has droppped the ball on ACADEMIC use of VMS and like it or not, this is having and will continue to have an influence on the industry. Do you think Unix would be where it is today if it had not been for its presence in academia? > > And by the way, there is likely very few Universities that have a single OS= > platform as their primary technical platform on the server side. It is ver= > y much College specific as each College within the University tends to do w= > hatever they want. Well, by definition one is primary and the rest have lower positions. But again, I was not talking about servers in the back room. I (and I think Doug) was talking about the system the students use. The one they learn to program on. The one they study in the Operating Systems Courses. The one they hear about in the classroom. That is where the mindset of the next generation of CIO's and IT managers is being formed. Not in the administrative datacenter or web hosting machine. > > In the US University (20K+ students) where I just completed a server optimi= > zation and DC planning engagement, for their tech platform of choice they u= > sed multiple versions of MAC, Linux, Solaris, Windows, Fedora, NetWare and = > even a few instances of Irix. Yes, no OpenVMS. And this doesn't bother you? Do oyu think any of this could have been influenced by the fact that none of the decision makers had ever used (or in some cases even heard of) VMS? > > Bottom line is that the technical environment in most Universities is extre= > mely fragmented based on the College and-or Dept. you are talking to. That = > was one of the challenges I was asked to address i.e. how to bring all of t= > hese various environments back under some type of centralized control. I am only talking about one department. The CS department. That's the one that is going to most influence the direction of IT in the future. It really doesn't matter what is int he lab in the Chem department. Their graduates are not going to go on to be CIO's. Or Bio, or Nursing, or Secondary Ed. > > >> "VMS certainly is worth considering for any CS lab that >> wishes to offer a broad spectrum of experience to the student" >> >> Doesn't look like administrative use to me. And it was the >> academic >> that I was talking about when I I said "that ship has sailed". >> > > Just wanted to emphasize that as my note stated. Which is irrelevant to the discussion and just further shows how HP has failed to understand and as a result has totally underestimated the importance of a strong academic presence. > >> Name one school today where VMS is the primary (or even secondary) >> computer system for teaching computing in the CS department? >> > > I never stated it was a primary platform. It may be, but I do not have acce= > ss to Cust data. Name one CS department where you have been called in to pitch VMS. > > Course, see above about the hugely fractured technical environments at most= > Universities. It usually depends on the College or Dept. See what I said above. For the sake of this discussion only one department at a University matters. the CS department. If other departments have "hugely fractured technical environments" it's because the "technical environment" doesn't matter to them, just the applications. Ah, there's that word again. I just took a STAT course over the summer that had a strong MINITAB requirement. Do you remember doing that on VMS? I do. But not any more. SPSS? BMDP? SLAM? Those are all the other departments care about. But the CS department is where the future is being directed. And that direction is in any direction but VMS nowdays. Not really a good thing one would think. > >> > >> > Other Universities are also using OpenVMS in various ways: >> > http://wasd.vsm.com.au/other/uma_2tb.html >> >> Looks like they use VMS for their webserver. Doesn't say anything >> about students actually learning about VMS in the CS department. >> Or even having access to a VSM machine beyond the web interface >> which could be anything without the user knowing or caring. >> >> Now, Spanish is not one of my stronger languages but unless they >> hide >> it under Mathematics, Electronics or Engineering I could not see >> where >> they even have a CS Department. >> >> Oh wait, they have an English language web page (well, sort of.) >> A bit of computer engineering but no Computer Science or even >> Computer Information Systems. Sorry, Kerry, but looks like they >> have no academic VMS either. >> > > You may be right, but since you have zero knowledge of the University, that= > is pure FUD based on your UNIX OS religion and preferences. I have as much as anyone else except for the staff there. There is no mention of VMS anywhere on any of their pages. You pointed this out as a sign of a VMS presence in academia. Where is it? Running a webserver on VMS hardly counts as VMS really brings nothing advantageous to the art. Where does it say that they use VMS for academic use and that the students will leave there with "broad spectrum of experience" that includes VMS? > >> > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/ospp_turin.html >> >> That's HP talking about something that Politecnico di Torino >> doesn't >> think is important enough to even have on their web page. No real >> CS department, but they have a Computer Engineering departmetn >> which >> seems to stress hardware design rather than software or or pure >> CS. >> No mention of this project there either. I would guess they had >> about >> as much luck getting their project going as I did here. >> >> So, how long does something have to be dead before HP stops touting >> it >> as a success? >> > > Give it a rest. You have next to zero interest in hearing anything but that= > UNIX is the answer for all University technical computing requirements. How can you be such an idiot. I fought to keep VMS here in the CS department (very likely to expense of my career) long after everyone else had given up on it. I put in the extra work on my own time to keep VMS machines running here. I convinced Professors to use them even when alternatives existed on our more common platforms. It's a damn sight more than anyone from HP has done. > >> > >> > And I regularly see University of.. or College of.. on >> participant .sig fil=3D >> > es in this newsgroup and others like Multinet, Rdb etc. >> >> Maybe like all the people who have responded to Dadid Turner we >> could do >> an unofficial poll of c.o.v users. How many people here with .edu >> in >> their email address are at schools that still use VMS as their >> primary >> (Secondary? Tertiary?) computing systems for teaching Computer >> Science >> or even Computer Inofrmatuion Systems? >> > > As I stated earlier, c.o.v. is only a small, micro subset of Custs who use = > OpenVMS. Yeah, but it is the mmicro subset that seems to be most fanatical about VMS and its continued survival. So, raise your hands people. Who, from the .edu community here, still has active CS or CIS courses that are done on VMS or talk about VMS as a part of the instruction? > > Most of the Rdb and Multinet newsgroup users do not even participate on com= > p.os.vms. Feel free to ask them the same question. > >> <.......> >> >> >:-) >> > >> > And if one looks at the future of education, ultra high >> availability and se=3D >> > curity is coming big time, because of all the remote courses >> being offered =3D >> > all year around. >> >> Again, you are talking about administrative use and I (and Doug) >> were >> talking about academic use. of course, without the academic use >> less >> and less people will even know what VMS is and we can already see >> the >> results of that. >> >> > >> > As an example - My son is taking a computer animation course >> (Animationment=3D >> > or.com). Totally online. It is a course being driven by >> instructors from Di=3D >> > sney, Pixar etc as they could not get enough of the right types >> of skills t=3D >> > hey needed. His classmates are from around North America, Europe >> and Asia P=3D >> > acific. It is not uncommon where he has to be online for class >> discussions =3D >> > and lectures at 9:00pm at night. It is a compressed 18 month >> course with 6 =3D >> > x 3 month sessions and 1 week between sessions. Huge advantage >> though is th=3D >> > at he can literally do this course anywhere there is a high speed >> Internet =3D >> > connection. (He has moved several times and it does not impact >> his course). >> >> And how much has he learned about VMS so far? Does he even know >> what the >> underlying technology is (and I would bet it ain't VMS). What's >> more, does >> he care. >> > > Again, you are missing the point. I'm missing the point!!!! Good grief. You have misswed the point of this thread since the beginning, "VMS certainly is worth considering for any CS lab that wishes to offer a broad spectrum of experience to the student" > >> > >> > Imho, that is where Universities are also heading for many of >> their course =3D >> > offerings (not all, of course) as they can not afford to have >> huge infrastr=3D >> > uctures sitting idle for numerous months with no student activity >> generatin=3D >> > g $`s. >> >> None of which requires VMS and being as none of the people involved >> have >> ever heard of VMS it is likely going to be a hard sell. How are >> you going >> to sell VMS to a Professor teaching animation when you don't even >> have >> graphics capability? Or are you announcing the return of VMS to >> the >> desktop workstation market? >> >> While everything you said may be true, it has nothing to do with >> what >> the original poster said or my response to it. HP has all but >> abandoned >> the academic world and that means the next generation of CIO's and >> IT managers will have never even heard of VMS. They will, however, >> know >> what Windows is and that it worked just fine when they were in >> college. >> Which one do you think they will bet the farm on? >> > > I have never stated better marketing is not an issue (the same could be sta= > ted for all enterprise OS platforms, as opposed to departmental), but the t= > rend in computing requirements from a senior BU perspective is delivering I= > T as ultra high HA, ultra high security services on radically fewer server = > OS instances and they do not care what the HW/OS platform is. > > Now you can continue to promote Windows/Linux servers with their 5-20 secur= > ity patches per month and one-app, one server cultures, as good back end ce= > ntralized computing platforms, but I really have to disagree. Damn, talk about missing the point. Here we were talking about students getting experience with VMS and you're back on that patches thing. Is that the only tune you know? > > Course, feel free to argue that they are .. That was never the subject of this thread, but it seems once oyu get on one track you have no way of seeing there are other discussions going on around you. I just don;t know what to say at this point. Probably just give up. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 13:35:13 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: In article <20070712221021.GA52098@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk>, Anton Shterenlikht writes: > > Thanks a lot. I'll try to search for your previous posts. > Perhaps it's time I read the RMS manual, though I thought the use > of RMS is optional. In other words I was not going to use RMS in > my fortran programs. > Fortran I/O is written on top of RMS. If you don't want to use RMS you'll have to do $QIO as spelled out in the I/O Users' Guide. This is non-trivial. Setting large number of buffers and large buffer sizes in Fortran OPEN statements is much more affective and much easier. If you have MB of RAM then set up MB of buffering. Both direct calls to RMS and $QIO can be done asynchronously and provide speed that normal synchronous Fortran I/O can't, but if you're not used to dealing with asynchonous I/O that, too can be non-trivial. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:11:35 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? Message-ID: <1184368295.432284.177340@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jul 13, 1:29 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > "Main, Kerry" writes: > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: b...@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:b...@cs.uofs.edu] > >> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > >> Sent: July 13, 2007 12:13 PM > >> To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? > > >> In article > >> >> p.net>, > >> "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: b...@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:b...@cs.uofs.edu] > >> >> On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > >> >> Sent: July 12, 2007 8:01 PM > >> >> To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> >> Subject: Re: HoffmanLabs: High-performance Interconnects, MPI? > > >> >> In article > >> <1184282066.484375.205...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > >> >> Doug Phillips writes: > > >> >> > Since "super computing" can involve different needs depending > >> >> upon the > >> >> > application, VMS certainly is worth considering for any CS lab > >> >> that > >> >> > wishes to offer a broad spectrum of experience to the student. > > >> >> Sorry guy, that ship has sailed. > > >> >> bill > > >> > Well, based on your previous comments, OpenVMS handles all of the > >> mission c=3D > >> > ritical business admin, scheduling and financial stuff in your > >> University (=3D > >> > Banner), so other readers on this list need to understand that > >> you are only=3D > >> > talking about one part of your specific environment. > > >> And what was the original poster talking about? > > > I just wanted to ensure that readers understand that OpenVMS plays a big pa= > > rt in your University. You only support the technical side, so the Admin si= > > de is not important to you as it is likely run by another group. > > They all know that. The point is the HP has droppped the ball on > ACADEMIC use of VMS and like it or not, this is having and will > continue to have an influence on the industry. Indeed. (More on that later.) > Do you think Unix > would be where it is today if it had not been for its presence in > academia? > Acquisition cost might have had something to do with it. The Berkeley project might have had some influence on other universities, too. And licensing costs and restrictions spawned the BSD and Linux efforts, no? It's that danged money thing again. (More on that later.) > > > > And by the way, there is likely very few Universities that have a single OS= > > platform as their primary technical platform on the server side. It is ver= > > y much College specific as each College within the University tends to do w= > > hatever they want. > > Well, by definition one is primary and the rest have lower positions. > But again, I was not talking about servers in the back room. I (and > I think Doug) was talking about the system the students use. Indeed I was. And not just use; the ones they learn from. (More on that later.) > The one > they learn to program on. The one they study in the Operating Systems > Courses. The one they hear about in the classroom. That is where the > mindset of the next generation of CIO's and IT managers is being formed. > Not in the administrative datacenter or web hosting machine. > Absolutely. Now, we've arrived at later (I'll snip the remainder of this discussion) Bill, your effort to keep VMS in your CS dept has been commended here before. The problem you were facing, as I see it, was that the only VMS systems you could get hold of (because of budgetary constraints) were old. The experience you were able to present to staff and student was *not* on par with the more current Windows & *nix systems nor especially the current VMS systems. Unfortunately, this is true in many places. Pitting an old VAX against a newer Sun, WinTel or LinTel doesn't make for a fair race. Now, if you had the budget, or could acquire a *modern* box with *modern* VMS and all its latest toys to play with, I think your experience might have been different. So, that probably isn't going to happen unless HP sees an advantage to selling VMS to other than the current niche. That's a shame. That your staff knows or cares little about teaching VMS is a shame. Teaching how hardware & software evolved to the present, Virtual Memory, file systems, processor designs,... without teaching the history of VMS, and where it is today, is like doing your genealogy without including your own parents in the chart. Understanding VMS to see how Unix/Linux/ Windows are trying to incorporate some of its concepts seems fairly important to me, but I guess that's just me. To paraphrase an the old saying; In order to see where a technology might be going, we must know where it's been and how it got to where it is now. Could understanding how OpenVMS works really be considered a waste of time? While I'm sure you'll say "Isn't going to happen," what will happen if VMS does regain popularity? With the current lower pricing and increased availability of IA/OpenVMS to the Small/Med sized market, it seems like more organizations might consider it, if given then chance. It really wouldn't take much of a push by the right people to move OpenVMS into the mainstream of awareness. And, the more people hear about something, the easier it is for them to justify buying it. When any product becomes *suddenly popular*, its initial demand always exceeds supply for a time, and each new buyer spawns more new buyers. Like I said, I believe it wouldn't take much effort by the right people. It certainly isn't impossible. Just some end-of-the week thoughts. Now, on the next start weekend attitude reset phase of this analog system's boot-life. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:33:54 GMT From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , "Jeffrey H. Coffield" writes: >> >> David Turner, Island Computers wrote: >>> Please .... if you have an Itanium running VMS or soon will have in a >>> commerical environment we would love to hear from you. >>> >>> We are not trying to accrue contact names etc, just trying to get an idea of >>> how many users are transitioning or will transition to Itanium VMS >>> >>> >> So far we have 6 running OpenVMS and 3 running SUSE Linux. I expect the >> rest of the production systems (3) to be gone by year end. > > So you won't be doing any production at the end of the year? What do > use the 9 Itanium boxes for? > The 6 OpenVMS Itanium systems replaced 6 production Alpha systems (2 clusters and 2 non-clustered). The 3 Linux were new for web servers and we have 3 production alphas left to go. One cluster of 2 RX2620's new with licences and 3 years h/w & s/w support was the same cost as the h/w and s/w support for 2 500 Mhz ES40's for three years. It is running about 5 times faster. Jeff Coffield ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:41:09 -0500 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Message-ID: <5fq2qnF3e8q6fU1@mid.individual.net> Michael Moroney wrote: > Chris Scheers writes: > >> Likewise, my AlphaStation 255 is half-flash. Can that be converted to >> full flash? > > I don't know about the 255, but do you really need it? Do you run ancient > versions of WNT or early fieldtests of Windows 2000? Need, no. But I'm still curious. For the occasional ARC needs, I have a magic floppy I put together that I can boot from the SRM that will put me into ARC. When power is cycled, I am back in SRM. It's much easier than reflashing, but still annoying. I don't use Windows much any more on the machine. (I used to have an Alpha device driver I supported). Most often, I need to go to ARC for hardware configuration. For example, configuring a KZPAC. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 20:12:26 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Message-ID: Chris Scheers wrote: > FWIW: All of the half-flash machines I know of came from Onsale a while > back. They were part (all?) of a special order of machines that never > got deployed. There are two empty PLCC sockets. They can be converted A while back? :^) I must confess, that gave me a good chuckle. As "a while back" is now nearly 10 years ago! I bought 3 of the systems, one was purchased for a friend that wasn't setup to buy stuff online. I still have my two systems. Zane ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 16:45:19 -0500 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Message-ID: healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > Chris Scheers wrote: >> FWIW: All of the half-flash machines I know of came from Onsale a while >> back. They were part (all?) of a special order of machines that never >> got deployed. There are two empty PLCC sockets. They can be converted > > A while back? :^) I must confess, that gave me a good chuckle. As "a while > back" is now nearly 10 years ago! I bought 3 of the systems, one was > purchased for a friend that wasn't setup to buy stuff online. I still have > my two systems. Right; it was late spring/early summer of 1998 when they were available from a place in Arizona. I loaded mine up with 768MB and it worked well, although I haven't used it lately. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jul 2007 01:16:26 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Message-ID: Rob Brooks wrote: > Right; it was late spring/early summer of 1998 when they were available from > a place in Arizona. > I loaded mine up with 768MB and it worked well, although I haven't used it > lately. I've not used mine in quite a while either, but I fondly remember them. While my first home VMS system was a MicroVAX II (quickly replaced with a VAXstation 3100/20), it was my Onsale Alpha's that really got me going with VMS at home. Of course I've upgraded a couple times since then. I'm really stumpted as to what I'll upgrade to from the XP1000/667 I currently use. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:19:13 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Install VMS on a Alphastation 200 ? Message-ID: <1184386753.223569.35760@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jul 13, 9:16 pm, heal...@aracnet.com wrote: > Rob Brooks wrote: > > Right; it was late spring/early summer of 1998 when they were available from > > a place in Arizona. > > I loaded mine up with 768MB and it worked well, although I haven't used it > > lately. > > I've not used mine in quite a while either, but I fondly remember them. > While my first home VMS system was a MicroVAX II (quickly replaced with a > VAXstation 3100/20), it was my Onsale Alpha's that really got me going with > VMS at home. Of course I've upgraded a couple times since then. I'm > really stumpted as to what I'll upgrade to from the XP1000/667 I currently > use. > > Zane Find a nice used 1.4GHz HP ZX2000 Itanium workstation on eBay. They are showing up more often in the $800-1000 price range. This is still a bit pricy though. If you're sharp-eyed you may find one for less. One went for $550 not long ago. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:07:29 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: In article <5fkh5tF3cn030U2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article <4693E1EC.6070603@comcast.net>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> In article <469386D0.6020503@comcast.net>, >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>>>Bob Koehler wrote: >>>> >>>>>In article <5fg3tpF3d7h82U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The most common program running on any VMS terminal in any >>>>>>of those rooms was the trojan-horse password grabber. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Fixed in VMS 3.0. Can Windows say the same? >>>>> >>>> >>>>ISTR the "trojan horse password grabber" being a problem long after >>>>V3.0. I believe that "pressing the break key" was added at V4.something. >>> >>> >>> Yes, but it relies on the user knowing that. I doubt most would today but >>> they certainly wouldn't have back then. >>> >> >> My users knew because I told them! > >You personally told everyone and explained it to their satisfaction? >And answered any questions they might come up with? How many users? >I have over a thousand a year and that is not counting the need to >re-train all the students from previous semesters. Or the fact that >I do not have personal contact with the majority of them because they >are not even students in my department. > No, when this was a problem - ie when users used dumb terminals to connect into systems (rather than connecting from a PC over TCP/IP etc ) - the students were given sheets of documentation which told them how to login. This included the warning about such login spoofing programs and the instruction to use the break key. It also included instructions on how to get from the dumb terminal through the DCX system to the terminal server and then to the VAX system. Hence unless they wanted to rely on finding a terminal which hadn't been disconnected from the DCX and terminal server properly they would have to read the documentation. If they did rely on that and didn't read the documentation and were then caught by a trojan login program then that was their own fault. The student accounts were non-privileged hence the amount of damage which could be done was limited. ( In fact someone who wanted to hack into student accounts on the Vaxes was probably better off just keeping an eye out for students walking away from their terminal for a few minutes still leaving it logged in. We used to run student help sessions where we made ourselves available for the students to come and ask us questions. The number of times a student would come up and say "I have this problem can you come and look at it - it's on the terminal next door." or something similar. That's without even considering the number of students who would share their password with their friends. ) If you are going back even further than that to the days when the dumb terminals were wired directly into the systems then the number of connections and number of potential users, who needed to be told about such things, was much much smaller. Hence personal contact was probably eminently possible - but that was before my time at the University. Equating this type of problem (or the DCL/shell virus problem) with buffer overflow and privilege escalation vulnerabilities which allow a complete system to be taken over seems rather silly. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >bill > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 14:29:57 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Is VMS losing the Financial Sector, also? Message-ID: In article <46974aac@mvb.saic.com>, Mark Berryman writes: > On current versions of VMS, if you mix AUTOBAUD and SECURE_SERVER, > pressing the break key is simply guaranteed to terminate any existing > process, it does not start the login procedure. One can then use the > normal autobaud procedure to set the terminal speed and get a login > prompt. When I said "you lose autobaud capability", I meant when you set this up in the most secure fashion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:47:01 -0700 From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: Itanium serial ports Message-ID: IanMiller wrote: > > See also MSA _UTIL V1.0 > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=07/01/29/7171032 > Thanks for the link. This worked. Jeff Coffield ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 20:51:41 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Message-ID: Ron Johnson wrote: > Why run Linux on Itanium? > Any particular affirmative reason, or just because you have the > boxes and didn't want to waste assets? Why not? We have quite a few at work that were purchased specifically to run Linux. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:31:25 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Message-ID: On 07/13/07 15:51, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> Why run Linux on Itanium? > >> Any particular affirmative reason, or just because you have the >> boxes and didn't want to waste assets? > > Why not? We have quite a few at work that were purchased specifically to > run Linux. AMD64/Opteron is better-supported. (Since it has a larger installed base, there is a larger base to file bugs.) Itanium Linux will benefit from that to a degree, but any (usually kernel or gcc) bugs unique to Itanium won't be caught as quickly. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:06:08 GMT From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Message-ID: Ron Johnson wrote: > On 07/12/07 08:29, Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: >> David Turner, Island Computers wrote: >>> Please .... if you have an Itanium running VMS or soon will have in a >>> commerical environment we would love to hear from you. >>> >>> We are not trying to accrue contact names etc, just trying to get an >>> idea of how many users are transitioning or will transition to >>> Itanium VMS >>> >>> >> So far we have 6 running OpenVMS and 3 running SUSE Linux. I expect >> the rest of the production systems (3) to be gone by year end. > > Why run Linux on Itanium? > > Any particular affirmative reason, or just because you have the boxes > and didn't want to waste assets? > The previous systems were 2 ~2Ghz Pentium IV with Apache/Tomcat running a web site taking about 2 million hits a day over a T1 line. I had one system from the Itanium migration class that I put SUSE on and dropped it in. I personally thought the T1 would be the limiting factor and didn't think there would be any difference. I was wrong. The president of the company saw the difference in the performance and ordered two Itaniums. Later a third was purchased as a development system. They really liked the idea of redundant power supplies and now we are connecting them to a MSA1000 to protect against disk failures. They also had to add a second T1 as the site is now taking about 4 million (and growing) hits a day. Jeff Coffield ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:37:50 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Message-ID: <003201c7c5af$358f2230$a0ad6690$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Johnson [mailto:ron.l.johnson@cox.net] > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 4:31 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) > > On 07/13/07 15:51, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Ron Johnson wrote: > >> Why run Linux on Itanium? > > > >> Any particular affirmative reason, or just because you have the > >> boxes and didn't want to waste assets? > > > > Why not? We have quite a few at work that were purchased > specifically to > > run Linux. > > AMD64/Opteron is better-supported. (Since it has a larger installed > base, there is a larger base to file bugs.) > There is a dark side to that you know... Intel/AMD Linux is far more vulnerable than is non-X86 Linux. That is because most of the "bad guys" out there only have access to X86 stuff, not PowerPC, Alpha, Itanium, etc. It's cheap at the price to run non-x86 Linux, just to watch hostile programs fail to execute. Still have all the other dozens of vulnerabilities. -Paul > Itanium Linux will benefit from that to a degree, but any (usually > kernel or gcc) bugs unique to Itanium won't be caught as quickly. > > -- > Ron Johnson, Jr. > Jefferson LA USA > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:11:16 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Message-ID: On 07/13/07 19:06, Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 07/12/07 08:29, Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: >>> David Turner, Island Computers wrote: >>>> Please .... if you have an Itanium running VMS or soon will have in >>>> a commerical environment we would love to hear from you. >>>> >>>> We are not trying to accrue contact names etc, just trying to get an >>>> idea of how many users are transitioning or will transition to >>>> Itanium VMS >>>> >>>> >>> So far we have 6 running OpenVMS and 3 running SUSE Linux. I expect >>> the rest of the production systems (3) to be gone by year end. >> >> Why run Linux on Itanium? >> >> Any particular affirmative reason, or just because you have the boxes >> and didn't want to waste assets? >> > > The previous systems were 2 ~2Ghz Pentium IV with Apache/Tomcat running > a web site taking about 2 million hits a day over a T1 line. I had one > system from the Itanium migration class that I put SUSE on and dropped > it in. I personally thought the T1 would be the limiting factor and > didn't think there would be any difference. I was wrong. I'm pretty sure that a ProLiant DL385 would show a similar performance gain. Also, the cost of the deeply pipelined microarchitecture of the P4 gave it the ability to reach high GHz clock speeds was that "pipeline flushes" (as when you switch tasks) caused a *severe* performance hit in a server environment. > The president of the company saw the difference in the performance and > ordered two Itaniums. Later a third was purchased as a development > system. They really liked the idea of redundant power supplies and now > we are connecting them to a MSA1000 to protect against disk failures. > They also had to add a second T1 as the site is now taking about 4 > million (and growing) hits a day. > > Jeff Coffield -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:13:14 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS) Message-ID: On 07/13/07 19:37, Paul Raulerson wrote: [snip] > > There is a dark side to that you know... Intel/AMD Linux is far more > vulnerable than is non-X86 Linux. That is because most of the "bad guys" out > there only have access to X86 stuff, not PowerPC, Alpha, Itanium, etc. It's > cheap at the price to run non-x86 Linux, just to watch hostile programs fail > to execute. Still have all the other dozens of vulnerabilities. That's a very valid point, and one I should have thought of. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:38:54 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Solved: SAN switch 2/8 on MSA1000 - cannot connect to serial of rj-45 port Message-ID: <4698292E.A33E3252@spam.comcast.net> "P. Sture" wrote: > > In article <4696C87F.97B790F@spam.comcast.net>, > David J Dachtera wrote: > [snip] > > > > A third-party product called "LapLink" (presumably for laptops, prior to SMB > > and such) also came about. Similar strategy. > > Laplink and Interlink introduced a nice little business opportunity back > in those days. The layman* who didn't know their cables thought they > needed a "special" Laplink cable, when in fact a normal bi-directional > parallel cable was all you needed. Only beer money, but it helped :-) What sucked about it was that "printer" cables were usually either DB25M to "Centronics" male or DB25M to DB25F, when what was needed was DB25M to DB25M. "LapLink cable" and later Belkin's "InterLink" cable were just right-sized but over-priced versions of what was needed. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:14:57 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: UK report says data protection breaches "out of control" Message-ID: ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > VMS does not get viruses or trojans or worms, so what > you are talking about are systems not properly secured > or inside jobs of the hacker getting hold of someone elses > password ... two different things ... this article is exposing > the security weaknesses in unix/linux/windoze and validating > the CERT site counts ... OS design is what is in question > here, not poor setup or password stealing ... That there exists little or no widespread malware and comparatively few CERT reports against OpenVMS -- or any other similarly low-reported platform -- is not a confirmation of nor proof of system security; one does not imply the other. I know of wide-open operating system boxes that have low CERT counts. VMS can be and has been vulnerable to virii, trojans, and worms, and to various of the newer forms of malware. This based on knowledge of and from the published history of OpenVMS. There have been trojans and there have been worms, and there have been various nasty denial-of-service attacks. There was fodder for a remote dictionary attack discussed here in c.o.v. recently. There have been cases where ALL-class privileges have been available to and acquired by unprivileged users, and information on these breaches has been public. Again, all from published reports. The UK report cited can serve as a wake-up call to examine local system security, and to look for exposures. This regardless of the platform. Gaving seen and read a couple of very interesting reports recently, specifically pointing to this targeting and pointing to techniques being actively used. One of the buffer-smashing articles -- though targeting another platform -- was quite enlightening, and provided far better detail on the underpinnings than the available vendor documentation. If an OpenVMS box contains sufficiently valuable data, then it's a target -- and the folks targeting these more valuable boxes can be quite savvy, and quite clever. And these attackers are effectively operating as a business. Would I care if I had an Alpha or VAX box running some non-critical service, and with less valuable data? Maybe. But that's likely more for the secondary damage that can be caused when an attacker re-purposes the server and its network pipe for malicious purposes. For folks still reading here: review and verify your system security. Train against social engineering attacks. Ensure recovery and restoration plans and processes, and test these. Attack your own system security, or have somebody attack it for you. Review auditing. And review how much the costs of increased security and integrity map against corporate goals, and make an informed decision. I'd not blindly assume security. Do I think OpenVMS security is good? Yes. Would I bet against a concerted security attack, and particularly if I was responsible for exceptionally valuable data resident on an OpenVMS server? No. The attacks are now and will continue to evolve. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 2007 13:45:48 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: UK report says data protection breaches "out of control" Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > How can you say that VMS doesn't get trojans or worms? A lot of security features new in the 5.x versions addressed problems through 4.7 that the WANK worm specifically targeted. So I think it's better to say VMS can be more resistant to worms, not that it can't get them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:04:13 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: UK report says data protection breaches "out of control" Message-ID: On 07/13/07 13:45, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Ron Johnson writes: >> How can you say that VMS doesn't get trojans or worms? > > A lot of security features new in the 5.x versions addressed problems > through 4.7 that the WANK worm specifically targeted. > > So I think it's better to say VMS can be more resistant to worms, not > that it can't get them. That I can agree with... :) -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.381 ************************