INFO-VAX Sun, 14 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 561 Contents: RE: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Bigger isn't always better! Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Jobs in HCL-Noida/Gurgaon/Chennai/Bangalore/Mumbai Re: SAMBA/CIFS (Was:Re: Bigger isn't always better!) Re: Technical Q&A (Was Re: Actual VMS Technical Qeustion! DECnet Phase IV partly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:43:48 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG] > Sent: October 13, 2007 1:02 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! > > In article <1192292586.516288.78220@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Neil > Rieck writes: > > > > > >On Oct 13, 7:51 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> This past summer I helped a customer to upgrade to VMS V8.3. It > took > >> quite a bit of time because they are a 24x7 operation and there is > >> very little downtime. We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each > month. > >> The machine would go down, we'd back up the system disk and then > update > >> to V8.3. On 3 of the 4 occasions, the system was restored to its > prior > >> version as something was discovered that would not function under > V8.3. > >> > >> We finally got all of the necessary software bits updates, ironed > out > >> all of the wrinkles and they had been running on V8.3 since Labor > Day > >> weekend. Advanced Server was the biggest PITA! > >> > >> Yesterday morning I reveived a call from a panicking system manager. > >> One of the apps they rely upon just stopped working. I asked him > the > >> typical questions trying to ascertain if they have changed anything > on > >> the system. Of course, the answer was "No!" They were in a panic > and > >> were ready to revert back to the old system version. I convinced > them > >> that that was stupid because the app was working up until yesterday. > >> > >> I was not familiar with the app in question. About an hour later, I > >> received a call from the system manager and I was told that one of > the > >> users had been logged in for several days and the app still worked > for > >> them. Hmm. So we set out to see what was different. I suspected a > >> logical name change or something similar but that was not the > problem. > >> > >> I was given instructions on how to access this app. So, I logged > into > >> their system and then I decided I would log in again and log > everything. > >> I issued a $ SET HOST/LOG 0 from the telnet session I'd created when > I > >> logged in. He walked me through the app and it worked!!! Hmm! > What > >> was different from my SET HOST session and my TELNET session that > would > >> cause such an issue. > >> > >> I told them that logging in with the SET HOST 0 worked, so they used > it > >> as a user work-around until I had an answer. I needed to leave and > go > >> on an errand. While driving, it dawned on as to what their problem > was. > >> > >> My telnet session created device TNA13301: Their software app was > still > >> assuming a maximum of 9999. When I returned home, I logged into > their > >> system and set DEVICE_NAMING to 4 and edited MODPARAMS.DAT to > reflect the > >> same. > >> > >> I then informed the system manager there of my supposition that it > was > >> the length of the device name causing the problem and that I set > their > >> DEVICE_NAMING SYSGEN param to 4 to restore the old limit at 9999. > They > >> were not convinced. So, I took it upon myself to use my favorite > DELTA > >> hack and I patched the TNA0 UCB$W_UNIT_SEED to 1. I logged in again > and > >> now I had TNA5: (several logins already!) and the app worked! I > reported > >> this and they were delighted. Not only did they no longer need the > double > >> login work-around but they didn't need a reboot in the middle of > their > >> workday! A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > >> > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > >> > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >> > >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html > > > >Thanks for sharing this. While I don't think your problem will affect > >me (but then again you never know) I am currently preparing for an > >upgrade from OpenVMS-8.2 to OpenVMS-8.3 just so we can use the new HP > >version of CIFS (a.k.a. SAMBA) > > FWIW, the impetus behind the upgrade WAS to use CIFS/SAMBA. It turns > out that SAMBA was grossly inadequate for the job compared to an older > PathWorks version the site was running. Fortunately, Advanced Server > V7.2-B (?IIRC) was available to fill that void. There were numerous > buggers in the AS V7.2-B that were uncovered (I wrote here about the > PCB$V_NODELET bit being set on the PWRK$LMSRV causing _more_ than its > fair share of unpleasantness.) but the HP folks did fix those issues. > (I believe the PCB$V_NODELET is still set though.) > > One of the people at this customer's site opened a text document on a > Weendoze PeeCee with whatever app that they had used before and SAMBA > presented a gobbledegook of run-on lines devoid of record breaks. I > would check out SAMBA carefully before putting it into production. I > have it installed here and try to use it with OS X. I can read files > from a SAMBA served disk but trying to store a file on the SAMBA disk > is impossible. I have NFS to fall back upon so it is not of any real > concern to me but IMHO SAMBA is not ready for prime-time yet. YMMV. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html mmmm... since the version of Samba that you likely were using is only beta = FT1, I guess it would go without saying that it is not ready for production= yet. Apparently, beta FT2 has only recently been announced as being availa= ble. :-) Reference: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/network/CIFS_for_Samba.html Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Oct 2007 21:54:13 +0200 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: <47113e85$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <13h1olv48585h29@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel writes: >Excellent war-horse story. > >Haven't enjoyed such a good read on c.o.v. in a long time! > >Congratulations BTW. I second this (all three statements)! -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:32:02 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Bigger isn't always better! Message-ID: Hi Brian, You gotta love these bugs that can run for days, weeks or possibly months in test/live before they sit up and bite you :-( If anyone would like to see a similar story/experience you can look at: - http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1074590 or for a more in-depth analysis, search COV for "chez Maher" via Google. Cheers Richard Maher PS. One would hope that these experience would encourage those at VMS versioning to "turn off" *all* new/changed functionality by default. (No matter how amazing they think their baby is, and how stupid it would be for customers to opt for stability over of the best thing since sliced-bread - But I doubt it.) wrote in message news:hj2Qi.2$mN.0@newsfe12.lga... > This past summer I helped a customer to upgrade to VMS V8.3. It took > quite a bit of time because they are a 24x7 operation and there is > very little downtime. We scheduled one Saturday afternoon each month. > The machine would go down, we'd back up the system disk and then update > to V8.3. On 3 of the 4 occasions, the system was restored to its prior > version as something was discovered that would not function under V8.3. > > We finally got all of the necessary software bits updates, ironed out > all of the wrinkles and they had been running on V8.3 since Labor Day > weekend. Advanced Server was the biggest PITA! > > Yesterday morning I reveived a call from a panicking system manager. > One of the apps they rely upon just stopped working. I asked him the > typical questions trying to ascertain if they have changed anything on > the system. Of course, the answer was "No!" They were in a panic and > were ready to revert back to the old system version. I convinced them > that that was stupid because the app was working up until yesterday. > > I was not familiar with the app in question. About an hour later, I > received a call from the system manager and I was told that one of the > users had been logged in for several days and the app still worked for > them. Hmm. So we set out to see what was different. I suspected a > logical name change or something similar but that was not the problem. > > I was given instructions on how to access this app. So, I logged into > their system and then I decided I would log in again and log everything. > I issued a $ SET HOST/LOG 0 from the telnet session I'd created when I > logged in. He walked me through the app and it worked!!! Hmm! What > was different from my SET HOST session and my TELNET session that would > cause such an issue. > > I told them that logging in with the SET HOST 0 worked, so they used it > as a user work-around until I had an answer. I needed to leave and go > on an errand. While driving, it dawned on as to what their problem was. > > My telnet session created device TNA13301: Their software app was still > assuming a maximum of 9999. When I returned home, I logged into their > system and set DEVICE_NAMING to 4 and edited MODPARAMS.DAT to reflect the > same. > > I then informed the system manager there of my supposition that it was > the length of the device name causing the problem and that I set their > DEVICE_NAMING SYSGEN param to 4 to restore the old limit at 9999. They > were not convinced. So, I took it upon myself to use my favorite DELTA > hack and I patched the TNA0 UCB$W_UNIT_SEED to 1. I logged in again and > now I had TNA5: (several logins already!) and the app worked! I reported > this and they were delighted. Not only did they no longer need the double > login work-around but they didn't need a reboot in the middle of their > workday! A reboot is scheduled for this evening. > > > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:27:38 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. Message-ID: <4711384b$0$7607$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> Dirk Munk wrote: > ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >> this is what Hillary has in store for you ... >> >> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C300939%2C00.html >> > It seems cross-border help in these areas is something new for Fox. I > live next to our university hospital. The hospital has a helicopter > with a medical emergency team. The operation area for this helicopter > stretches well into Nothern Germany, and one of the docters in the > team is a German who also speaks Dutch. > > Fire brigades, police forces, they all work together in perfect > harmony across the border. The same thing happens between The > Netherlands and Belgium. > > To give a very nice example, if a police car is in persuit of a > criminal, it can even cross the border to continue the chase! Schengen and various other trans national agreements. however, in some countries that particular aspect is clearly not constitutionally allowed. It does not stop it happenning or being agreed upon. However if the High Court refuses to hear a case, then it will never be tested. Political expedience wins every time - bananas anyone? Dweeb. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:22:26 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Message-ID: ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > this is what Hillary has in store for you ... > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C300939%2C00.html > It seems cross-border help in these areas is something new for Fox. I live next to our university hospital. The hospital has a helicopter with a medical emergency team. The operation area for this helicopter stretches well into Nothern Germany, and one of the docters in the team is a German who also speaks Dutch. Fire brigades, police forces, they all work together in perfect harmony across the border. The same thing happens between The Netherlands and Belgium. To give a very nice example, if a police car is in persuit of a criminal, it can even cross the border to continue the chase! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:53:45 GMT From: Malcolm Dunnett Subject: Re: Canadians flee Canadian socialized Hillary type healthcare for U.S. U.S.U.S. Message-ID: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article <1192145979.344608.146830@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: >> this is what Hillary has in store for you ... > > Please not post URLs without explaining the relevance to VMS. > > Please do not post off-topic URLs. Well VMS used to be big in the health-care sector here in British Columbia, but AFAIK it's pretty much gone now. Not that that has anything to do with the drivel that Bob posted a link to, but maybe it gets the thread back on topic. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:59:00 -0700 From: dbaguru Subject: Jobs in HCL-Noida/Gurgaon/Chennai/Bangalore/Mumbai Message-ID: <1192334340.803723.14470@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Jobs in HCL-Noida/Gurgaon/Chennai/Bangalore/Mumbai 1. Citrix Admins - Noida - Chennai [L2/L3 Support] 2. Sun Solaris Admins - Noida - Chennai - Mumbai [L2/L3 Support] 3. HP Unix Admins [Chennai] / IBM AIX Admins [Chennai & Mumbai] 4. Linux Admin [L2/L3 Support] - NCR & Chennai 5. Oracle DBAs - Noida & Chennai [L2/L3 Support] 6. MS SQL DBAs - Noida - Chennai - Gurgaon [L2/L3 Support] 7. Share Point Portal Admins - Noida & Chennai [L2/L3 Support] 8. MS Windows [Exchange/ADS/SMS]- Noida-Chennai-Mumbai-Hyderabad [L2/ L3 Support] 9. Network Professionals - [ CCNPS / CCIEs - Routing and Switching / Security] - Noida 10. Voice Professionals - Cisco - CCVP's / CIPT's - Noida 11. Veritas Netbackup Professionals - Noida 12. Storage Professionals - NetApps / IBM SAN / Hitachi - Noida 13. Mainframe / AS400 Professionals - Chennai 14. Websphere / Weblogic Admins - Mumbai - Chennai - [L2/L3 Support] 15. Call Center Professionals-NCR-Chennai-Hyderabad Send profiles to hotjobs2008@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:39:11 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: SAMBA/CIFS (Was:Re: Bigger isn't always better!) Message-ID: bradhamilton wrote: > Folks, > > Please consider continuing to share your experiences involving upgrading > from SAMBA 2.2.8 or migrating from AS to CIFS. I had a bad experience > attempting to upgrade from 2.2.8 to an earlier iteration of CIFS last > year, and have been looking for others who have made a successful > transition to attempt to learn from their experiences. Thanks! FWIW, I was at the "VMS Tech Update" in Stockholm/Sweden last week. One of the sessions was an update on CIFS run by Jim Janetos "OpenVMS Base Operating System Lab Manager". In case the presentation might include something "new", I've put a copy on my site : http://www.jescab.se/upload/cifs.pdf During Jim's presentation someone from the last row did a comment that some guys at the Technical highschool in Stockholm had made a VMS port of SAMBA with full cluster support quite some years ago, which seemed to surpriced Jim quite a lot... :-) :-) B.t.w, I've been using one of the "non-HP" ports of SAMBA in VMS for some time but only on my "office" system... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 18:08:46 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: Technical Q&A (Was Re: Actual VMS Technical Qeustion! DECnet Phase IV partly Message-ID: <471141EE.3080601@comcast.net> Keith Parris wrote: > For folks here in need of answers to technical questions, or who have > technical knowledge to contribute, I highly recommend the HP IT Resource > Center Forums on OpenVMS as a far-superior alternative to this > newsgroup: > http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/familyhome.do?familyId=288 I've had mixed success with ITRC ever since I started using it again this summer. One of my questions was answered satisfactorily, but only after long back-and-forth with several correspondents over a span of several weeks. The second of my questions has not (yet) been answered to my satisfaction (even though there is one of those silly "rabbit-out-of-the-hat" icon next to my question, indicating that it was answered, even though it wasn't). I've just posted another question, to see if ITRC can raise its success percentage to 66.6% from 50%. :-) Except for a few folks who have helped tremendously on ITRC, the majority of responses I received were either non-helpful, or off the mark completely. The folks who are consistently helpful, BTW, are not the folks who score highest on the idiot rating system. Go figure. :-) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.561 ************************