INFO-VAX Fri, 14 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 684 Contents: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: Compiling ANU-NEWS on Alpha? Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo MicroVAX 3100-80 Problem Re: MicroVAX 3100-80 Problem Re: Unix for VMS guys Re: VMS like search utility for Windows Re: VMS like search utility for Windows Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:08:01 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: In article <475E9639.5060303@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > This does NOT look like a backup to me! No form of RAID is equivalent > to a backup unless you can take it off site. You just have a third > member of the shadow set that you play with occasionally! There are different reasons for backup. An off-site backup is essential to guard against disasters. Other types of backup guard against user errors. If one doesn't have redundant hardware, then one also needs a backup to guard against disk failures. And one needs backups to guard against other things which can happen. One could try to come up with a backup strategy which would help in all possible cases, but this might not be possible or it might not be efficient enough. Another approach is to do different sorts of backups and then use whichever is appropriate when a problem occurs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:10:49 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > ITSM it was suggested that the third member cosist of a 2-spindle > mirror-set > from the SAN. Then, if you need to use the third volume, you split it > into > two separate 1-spindle LUNs and mount them as a shadow-set pair. Will that force a full copy? > Now you > have recovered with a shadowset, and your only problem is getting a new > 2-spindle mirror-set from the SAN copied into the shadow-set, and that > seems > to require a full copy, but you have your 2-disk shadow set back. > That's really close to what you seem to need. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:47:25 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: Compiling ANU-NEWS on Alpha? Message-ID: In article , cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) writes: >That brings back unpleasant memories. In the early years of supporting >Mosaic on VMS, it was a constant struggle to keep the build working >because DEC C and Multinet were constantly changing their header files >in incompatible ways. I probably just got lucky (or did some hacking) >with the particular DEC C and Multinet versions I last built ANU-NEWS with. Finally I have ANUNEWS for Multinet compiled and working. From what I found so far: - Process Software says that one should use HP's header files and that they no longer maintain their own header files. With this in mind, I removed a few includes from the Multinet header files and came a big step further. - I had to comment out a few constants in UAF.H. - I had to modify NEWSBUILD.COM to have three modules compiled with /ASSUME=NOALIGN - I realized that DECNET is necessary in order to have NEWS add batch files. So the only thing left are a few warnings in NNTP_TCPUCXM.C, all like the following: memcpyv(t->write_buffer + write_buffer_len, b->line, len); ........^ %CC-W-NOTVOLQUAL, In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer value "t->write_buffer+write_buffer_len" is volatile, but the referenced type of the target of this assignment is not. I don't think that this will cause problems. But if anybody knows how to fix this, I am interested ;-) In addition, I wouldn't mind if there were a way to have ANUNEWS working without DECNET. Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:23:03 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: HP to close Nashua (ZKO) Message-ID: In article , brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) wrote: > > There is no early retirement being offered. > > As many VMS engineers live in NH (and pay no income tax), I expect > a large number of VMS engineering will telecommute, rather than work > in MA and pay a 5.3% income tax. In contrast with the way HP told my colleagues and myself that we must take a 20 to 30 percent pay cut 5 years ago or lose our jobs, it sounds like an excellent deal to me. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2007 11:22:13 -0600 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) Subject: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Message-ID: I'm looking for a nice graphic of the old blue (or older) |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo. Preferable something drawn with graphic software rather than photographed or scanned. All I've been able to find is the later red one, like this: http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/alpha/digital_556.jpg Pointers to a link would be great. Please do not eamil graphic files to this address. Thanks. BTW, after seeing the announcement for the PDP LinkedIn group, I was wondering if there was interest in a Digital alumni group. I see them for HP and IBM and other computer companies; DEC needs to be represented there. Or is there already one there that I somehow missed? -- Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://www.nira-rocketry.org/Document/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Sir, if I was building a weapon of mass destruction, you wouldn't be able to find it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:56:15 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Message-ID: <3tz8j.3$F7.2@newsfe09.lga> In article , kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: > > >I'm looking for a nice graphic of the old blue (or older) |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| >logo. Preferable something drawn with graphic software rather than >photographed or scanned. All I've been able to find is the later red one, >like this: http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/alpha/digital_556.jpg > >Pointers to a link would be great. Please do not eamil graphic files to this >address. Thanks. > >BTW, after seeing the announcement for the PDP LinkedIn group, I was >wondering if there was interest in a Digital alumni group. I see them for HP >and IBM and other computer companies; DEC needs to be represented there. Or >is there already one there that I somehow missed? I have a .PNG that is the maroon red color. With some image software, you could easily change the color mask to blue. Will that do? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2007 07:56:37 +0200 From: Alexander Horn Subject: MicroVAX 3100-80 Problem Message-ID: <4760d7a5@news.arcor-ip.de> Hi VAX-Gods, I've a problem: System: digital(TM) MicroVAX 3100-80 (KA47) Model: 470ZM-B9 S/N: AY233C2253 SCSI Disk: Seagate ST31320N Yesterday, I got my first ``own'' VAX, but my Console Terminal (A transtec VT420) [later my OPA0, I hope] displays the following content: [...] KA47-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 08-00-2B-2F-61-25 24MB [...................................] OK 83 BOOT SYS >>> _ I got a prompt :-) A "SHOW DEV" says: VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- ESA0 08-00-2B-2F-61-25 ..HostID A/3 INITR >>> _ Something is wrong my "baby"... because the Seagate ST31150N is "OK".. Also "SHOW CONFIG" says "OK" (NVR, DZ, CACHE, MEM, FPU, IT, SYS, NI and SCSI) What now? :-) Really, it's my first, ``own'' VAX... lol C YA, -Vaxima (VAX-Enthusiast since 1983 :-) -- Alexander Horn, Hostmaster (of staff) | OpenVMS (TM) rocks! 10 Bruckner, Sindelfingen 71065 Germany | http://www.marway.org/ eMail: vaxima@marway.org | Trouble w/ Windows? Reboot! vaxima@openvms-rocks.com | Trouble w/ UNIX? Be root! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:02:14 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3100-80 Problem Message-ID: <733d8$476270c5$cef8887a$1568@TEKSAVVY.COM> Alexander Horn wrote: > A "SHOW DEV" says: > > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- > ESA0 08-00-2B-2F-61-25 > ..HostID A/3 INITR Have you set a proper SCSI ID on your seagate disk ? Does the disk spin up ? During the powerup sequence, do you see any question marks in the series of dots and numbers that indicate self test progress ? have you tried SHOW SCSI ? HELP SHOW (or just HELP) will give you more info on what you can do on a vax >>> prompt. Are you sure the cables are properly connected to the disk drive ? Do you have documentation for it ? If not: http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/microvax/index.html The above contains a few links to sites that have a whole bunch of PDF files for varous vax models. and www.seagate.com will have pinouts for your drive, especially how to set SCSI ID. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2007 15:47:47 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: <5sfmt2F18qogpU1@mid.individual.net> In article <2lWu5dk9H431@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <5sacmiF17o5oaU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> I have, repeatedly!! For those who prefer a simple editor to work >> with the password file Unix has provided the "vipw" command since >> BSD 4.0 (October 1980). It handles locking the password system and, >> since the advent of shadow passwords, handles them as well. Beyond >> that, there are any of a number of different GUI methods and even >> simple batch mode systems for adding, deleting or modifying the users >> on a system. And a simple google search will show that I stated >> this at the very beginning of this thread!! > > The last time I did vipw on a Solaris box the shadow password for > the new account could not be created by any command that "man -k pass" > could find, and existing accounts could not update thier own > passwords until a more Solaris savy admin spent some time cleaning > up. As I said, vipw has been around since 1980 which, of course, pre-dates even Solaris by quite a bit. You will pardon me if I am just a bit skeptical. Of course, if it was Solaris, you could have used the real documentation (Sun has long a wall to rival the Grey, Orange or even Blue walls from DEC). > > All I did in vipw was add one line with a new name, UID, and login > path. Well, my experience is that vipw usually refuses to save a corrupt file if your entries are wrong and if all you put in was "a new name, UID, and login path" that would have been insufficient. But, as I said, I am rather skeptical and expect there is more to the story than we are being told. Especially considering your extreme bias against anything Unix. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:43:43 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: VMS like search utility for Windows Message-ID: <385c3300-4a70-48af-be7c-13d220037d7c@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 5, 11:34 am, vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > On Dec 5, 11:59 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > > > > > vancouvercan...@yahoo.ca wrote: > > > Hi, everybody > > > > > > > > In despair, I hope somebody has a Windows replacement for the > > > wonderful VMS Search command. The VMS search is so versatile and > > > useful that I am searching for a similar command line tool for the > > > Windows platform. > > > > After a little bit of searching, I know of find and findstr. > > > Specifically, I am looking for a command line tool that allows > > > specification of search files using MODified, CREated, SINce and > > > BEFore date modifiers. > > > > On VMS, it is so easy to search for something that has happened in > > > yesterday's log file... Why such a simple task is hard on Windows? > > > > <\Big desperation sigh> > > > > TIA > > > Van > > > > NB: Please, keep to the topic and refrain from bashing Windows. Your > > > mom would not approve bashing a crippled OS. ;-) > > > It's not hard if you use the Windows interface. The "command line" > > interface is the mortal remains of MSDOS and is nearly useless for most > > purposes.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > I am looking for a command line utility because I want to use it in a > batch running at 4h00 AM everyday that will alert me when it finds > some specific string in yesterday's log files. As you can guess, there > is a big number of log files in the directory but I need to find if > some event occurred yesterday. > > TIA > Van The Watcom compiler/development system had a utility called wgrep which was command line. The entire Watcom tool set is now OpenSource and hosted by SciTech I believe. Do a Web search for Watcom C++. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:28:56 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: VMS like search utility for Windows Message-ID: "windows grep" in Google gave a couple of grep ports for Windows. I guess they are as like any grep port for VMS as one could ask for... :-) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:38:42 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > them. Getting sneaky I change the boot type of the DS10L to I64 and try > again. Success!! Sneaky indeed since IA64 boxes don't support MOP in their firmware so an IA64 server shoudl never get a MOP request from another IA64 box. Appears they purposefully disabled the serving of alpha boot requests. Note that a VAX was able to serve Alpha boot requests. (even though it was not supported). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:57:44 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: <47627DC8.6020700@comcast.net> Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > OK, I've got an rx2600 running VMS 8.3. I want to create a two node > cluster with the other node being a DS10L, also running VMS 8.3. I have > no disks on the DS10L. No problem say's I, I'll just take one of the > disks on the RX2600 and load an image backup of a VMS system disk on it > (I know I can't have IA64 and Alpha system images on the same disk). > > So I load up a disk with the Alpha system image and head off into > cluster_config to add the satellite. No Dice, it will only let me add an > IA64 satellite. I tell myself there's no reason this shouldn't work, the > RX2600 is just an MSCP server, serving up blocks from the Alpha system > disk - why should the Alpha care what architeture the MSCP server is > running on? > > Not to be so easily daunted I go into LANCP and add the node by hand, > pointing the load image to APB on the Alpha system disk and setting up > the pointer to proper system root on the Alpha disk. I define the boot > type as Alpha (since obviously it is). > > Off to the DS10L console and >>> b ewa0 - the MOP boot requests go out > but nobody answers. Go back to the RX2600 and do a SHOW NODE in LANCP. > It tells me it sees the MOP requests but won't volunteer to service > them. Getting sneaky I change the boot type of the DS10L to I64 and try > again. Success!! After ironing out a few logicals I had messed up the > DS10L comes up just fine into the cluster, running off the Alpha system > disk being served by the RX2600. > > So am I missing something? Is there any reason this shouldn't work? Obviously, it DOES work. That's not the same thing as being supported. I don't know that it's not supported but, if you can't find an HP document that says it IS supported, you have to assume that it's not. If it's not supported, you are ON YOUR OWN! When it breaks in the next release you're stuck!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:09:11 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: In article , Malcolm Dunnett writes: >{...snip...} > >So am I missing something? Is there any reason this shouldn't work? :D Yes! To sell more Itanium boxes! ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:19:53 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: <82ee8$47629107$cef8887a$8793@TEKSAVVY.COM> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > :D Yes! To sell more Itanium boxes! ;) > Oh, Mr Vaxman, I feel sorry for you. Hear your most beloved state of NJ is considering evolving to the civilised world and banning death penalty. If this happens, it means that should you become governor of that state, you will not be able to pass a law that makes using Windows a crime punishable by death penalty ;-) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2007 15:37:54 +0200 From: vax@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de () Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: <47629542$1@merkur.rz.uni-konstanz.de> In article , Malcolm Dunnett writes: |> OK, I've got an rx2600 running VMS 8.3. I want to create a two node |> cluster with the other node being a DS10L, also running VMS 8.3. I have |> no disks on the DS10L. No problem say's I, I'll just take one of the |> disks on the RX2600 and load an image backup of a VMS system disk on it |> (I know I can't have IA64 and Alpha system images on the same disk). |> |> So I load up a disk with the Alpha system image and head off into |> cluster_config to add the satellite. No Dice, it will only let me add an |> IA64 satellite. I tell myself there's no reason this shouldn't work, the |> RX2600 is just an MSCP server, serving up blocks from the Alpha system |> disk - why should the Alpha care what architeture the MSCP server is |> running on? |> |> Not to be so easily daunted I go into LANCP and add the node by hand, |> pointing the load image to APB on the Alpha system disk and setting up |> the pointer to proper system root on the Alpha disk. I define the boot |> type as Alpha (since obviously it is). |> |> Off to the DS10L console and >>> b ewa0 - the MOP boot requests go out |> but nobody answers. Go back to the RX2600 and do a SHOW NODE in LANCP. |> It tells me it sees the MOP requests but won't volunteer to service |> them. Getting sneaky I change the boot type of the DS10L to I64 and try |> again. Success!! After ironing out a few logicals I had messed up the |> DS10L comes up just fine into the cluster, running off the Alpha system |> disk being served by the RX2600. |> |> So am I missing something? Is there any reason this shouldn't work? |> If you have installed DECnet IV on your IA64 you can boot your alpha: $ mc ncp NCP>show node dg12 char Node Volatile Characteristics as of 14-DEC-2007 15:30:32 Remote node = 47.71 (DG12) Hardware address = 00-00-F8-76-4B-FD Load file = APB.EXE Load Assist Agent = SYS$SHARE:NISCS_LAA.EXE Load Assist Parameter = DSA12: NCP>show circ eia-0 char Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of 14-DEC-2007 15:31:30 Circuit = EIA-0 State = on Service = enabled Cost = 4 Maximum routers allowed = 33 Router priority = 64 Hello timer = 15 Type = Ethernet The service of the circuit must be enabled. Eberhard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:31:12 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Why can't I use an IA64 as a boot server for an Alpha? Message-ID: <4lx8j.2$fO3.0@newsfe12.lga> In article <82ee8$47629107$cef8887a$8793@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > > >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> :D Yes! To sell more Itanium boxes! ;) >> > > >Oh, Mr Vaxman, I feel sorry for you. Hear your most beloved state of NJ >is considering evolving to the civilised world and banning death penalty. Such _defamation_ will get you in trouble JF! :) I do NOT love the people's republic of New Jermany. However, there hasn't been an execution here for several decades. This will end the waste of tax payer's resources to pay for scumbag attorneys for the endless parade of appeals they file for these murderers. >If this happens, it means that should you become governor of that state, >you will not be able to pass a law that makes using Windows a crime >punishable by death penalty ;-) Weendoze *IS* a crime and using it should be penalty enough. I'm amazed at the numbers of self-penitent morons forcing this suffering upon themselves. If anything, they should be forced into prison for life without parole and be forced to have to continue to use Weendoze. However, our Constitution's Bill of Rights 8th Amendment might prohibit Weendoze as cruel and unusual punishment. ;) Albeit, since our Constitution no longer provided protection for free speech, why should it protect against cruel and unusual punishment too. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.684 ************************