INFO-VAX Thu, 24 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 47 Contents: 2008 OpenVMS Boot Camp Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: DECTerm and xterm DECTerm and xterm (was: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set) DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Re: F$UNIQUE library function Re: GNV 2.1 mount points question Re: In Stock Re: marine computer gearheads - Trying to identify possible VAX 780. Re: Mystery of X-windows colours/resources Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set OT: Davos Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Re: The global village, the operating system version Re: This NG seems unusually quiet... Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:06:03 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: 2008 OpenVMS Boot Camp Message-ID: <5c27072b-1dd7-45a0-a3f7-9ba8e7b097d7@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgroup, Since folks seem to miss this in the VMS update that I send out. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Boot Camp is scheduled for the week of May 18 2008. We will start Sunday at noon and end Friday at noon. The location will be the Radisson hotel in Nashua, NH (formally the Sheraton). The hotel rate is $110 per night and includes internet and health club. Registration is not open yet but Stacie will be taking care of this for us again. Tuition charge is still the same at $1495.00 As always this will be limited to the first 200 people that register. There will be a partners roundhouse, you will be hearing more about this from Roxanne. There will be number of awesome hands on sessions. There will be youth scholarships. I am currently looking for customer keynotes. Warm Regards, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:53:33 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4797b857$0$16154$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> >> Isn't VMS licensed to specific processors? I was under the impression that ever sincethe advent of LMF at 5.0, they didn't care so much about specific box, but rather processor type and later machine class. When DEC changed it to machine class (personal, departmental, large system or whatever they were called), once your licences had been moved to that scheme, it was my understanding that you were free to move between machines within that class without having to have licences "transfered". So, if you have licences for a processor X (or machine class Y) and you move from that machine to an emulated machine of the same type/class, I don't see why there should be a problem. If VAX-VMS were still being developped, the SPDs might be updated to reflect availability of emulated boxes and licensing scheme might also be updated. Where I might see a problem, if I were product manager, is some emulator pretending to be a Microvax II (and thus allowing inexpensive VMS licences) but offer enterprise class computing power with 3ghz processors, high speed PCI etc. But since they stopped selling VAX and stopped developping VMS on VAX, HP doesn't have much moral authority to prevent someone from moving from a failing VAX to an emulated one. And if HP doesn't want support revenus from folks running VAX-VMS on emulated platforms, that is HP's decision. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 2008 22:38:41 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vptvhF1mlqlsU1@mid.individual.net> In article <4797b857$0$16154$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >>> Isn't VMS licensed to specific processors? > > I was under the impression that ever sincethe advent of LMF at 5.0, they > didn't care so much about specific box, but rather processor type and > later machine class. Well, as we all know, they don;t care about VMS one way or the other. But what does the license say. > > > When DEC changed it to machine class (personal, departmental, large > system or whatever they were called), once your licences had been moved > to that scheme, it was my understanding that you were free to move > between machines within that class without having to have licences > "transfered". Again, your understanding has no legal standing. What does the license say? I find it hard to believe that they ask for a serial number (granted, it is faked with the emulator and they probably don't care but they require it just the same) for a Hobbyist and wouldn;t for a commercial system. > > > So, if you have licences for a processor X (or machine class Y) and you > move from that machine to an emulated machine of the same type/class, I > don't see why there should be a problem. Would a lawyer agree with you? > > If VAX-VMS were still being developped, the SPDs might be updated to > reflect availability of emulated boxes and licensing scheme might also > be updated. Where have you been? Nothing is going to be updated. And they very likely don't care about emulated boxes. > > Where I might see a problem, if I were product manager, is some emulator > pretending to be a Microvax II (and thus allowing inexpensive VMS > licences) but offer enterprise class computing power with 3ghz > processors, high speed PCI etc. Unless the emulator writers are puttng in delay loops any emulated system is going to be far beyond the fastest VAX by this point. > > But since they stopped selling VAX and stopped developping VMS on VAX, > HP doesn't have much moral authority to prevent someone from moving from > a failing VAX to an emulated one. I am amazed at the people who equate the morality of owning something with continued development. They have all of the moral authority when it copmes to VMS including the authority moral and legal to tell people they may no longer run it. On anything, emulated or real. It's their's. Period. All authority for it's disposition lies with them. Why is this such a hard concept for modern IT professionals to grasp? > > And if HP doesn't want support revenus from folks running VAX-VMS on > emulated platforms, that is HP's decision. That is true, but it doesn't give anyone the right to run it without paying for it. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 2008 22:46:19 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vpudrF1mlqlsU2@mid.individual.net> In article <4797ba20$0$25473$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout writes: > on 23-1-2008 22:53 JF Mezei wrote... >>>> Isn't VMS licensed to specific processors? > > [snip] > >> So, if you have licences for a processor X (or machine class Y) and you >> move from that machine to an emulated machine of the same type/class, I >> don't see why there should be a problem. > > I'm not a lawyer (I'm not assuming you are), but I look at the wording > in the SPD and from there I conclude what HP's legal position *could* > be, if they choose to persue this. You don't get to make your own rules. > > [snip] > >> But since they stopped selling VAX and stopped developping VMS on VAX, >> HP doesn't have much moral authority to prevent someone from moving from >> a failing VAX to an emulated one. > > moral authority <> legal position, True, but both reside with the owner of the IP, in this case HP. > but I grant you that when a judge > looks at 10 years of not caring, (s)he'll most likely take that into > account as well. I don't believe a judge has the authority "take that into account". A judge would have to rule on the law. There is no statute of limitations on IP. As a matter of fact, quite the contrary if only in the case of copyright. > >> And if HP doesn't want support revenus from folks running VAX-VMS on >> emulated platforms, that is HP's decision. > > if they only knew... Everyone here likes to assume that HP somehow doesn't know the value of this particular piece of IP. maybe it's time you started considering that not only do they know, they know it is not as valuable as some people here would like to think. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <63ddb4bd-8a76-4700-a206-ce6b86d41a51@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Jan 23, 4:05 pm, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 23-1-2008 22:53 JF Mezei wrote... > > >>> Isn't VMS licensed to specific processors? > > [snip] > > > So, if you have licences for a processor X (or machine class Y) and you > > move from that machine to an emulated machine of the same type/class, I > > don't see why there should be a problem. > > I'm not a lawyer (I'm not assuming you are), but I look at the wording > in the SPD and from there I conclude what HP's legal position *could* > be, if they choose to persue this. You don't get to make your own rules. > > [snip] > > > But since they stopped selling VAX and stopped developping VMS on VAX, > > HP doesn't have much moral authority to prevent someone from moving from > > a failing VAX to an emulated one. > > moral authority <> legal position, but I grant you that when a judge > looks at 10 years of not caring, (s)he'll most likely take that into > account as well. > > > And if HP doesn't want support revenus from folks running VAX-VMS on > > emulated platforms, that is HP's decision. > > if they only knew... > (IANAL either) It's all on-line, so why speculate? The SPD states what's "supported" and the license agreement states the legalities. Transfers are explained here: Read where it says: ## "Redesignation: the transfer of licenses by the customer from one system to another system within the same legal entity. These transfers require neither notification to HP nor HP's approval. The license must be valid for the second system." ## What exactly "valid for the second system" means could be open for discussion, but if SIMH or whatever is emulating a VAX-XXXX and the license is valid for that model, then I'd say you could argue that the license is "valid" for that system. Serial numbers aren't mentioned anyplace that I see. Now, if I buy a PC from you that's running an emulator and OpenVMS and I want to keep using OpenVMS, then we should fill out the "relicense application form" and send it along with $400 and a proof of ownership (the PAK works) and we'll have made a legal transfer. Whatever if any paperwork and money the emulator or other people need is another issue. If the box has never run VMS and it's not replacing anything, then you need to buy a *new* license for the class of machine you want to license, and unless I've overlooked some fine print, the license is yours to use on any one (or licensed units) of that class of system you own. Whether the configuration is "supported" or not doesn't matter to the license; if you fill out the paperwork and they cash your check and send you a PAK, you are "legal." Anyway, that's the way I've read this in the past, and that's the way it reads to me now. (Note that folks outside of the U.S. will/might have different requirements and I've never looked at them.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:48:19 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4797EE63.4A10CF34@spam.comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article , JKB > writes: > > > Today, FreeVMS is _only_ a VMS clone. > > How long has the project been going on? What has it got to offer? Does > anyone outside the project take it seriously? > > > But it is the only chance to > > keep VMS alive for a long time. > > I'm not a lawyer, but presumably if it becomes viable HP can and will > take legal action against it. I rather doubt that. HP will not spend a cent or lift a finger to keep VMS alive. I see no reason to believe they would pursue litigation to defend something they do not want. I'd tend to believe that a "free" VMS would relieve them of the burden of maintaining it at some point in the future, when the remaining community would embrace the "free" version in leiu of the "real thing" so they could drop it once and for all and be done with it. Sort of gives one pause to consider that HP might help/encourage FreeVMS just to finally get the "albatross" off their neck, eh? ;-) David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:50:51 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4797EEFB.EAFB7173@spam.comcast.net> VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > > > > > >In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > >>In article , JKB > >> writes: > >> > >>> Today, FreeVMS is _only_ a VMS clone. > >> > >>How long has the project been going on? What has it got to offer? Does > >>anyone outside the project take it seriously? > >> > >>> But it is the only chance to > >>> keep VMS alive for a long time. > >> > >>I'm not a lawyer, but presumably if it becomes viable HP can and will > >>take legal action against it. > >> > >Only if it infringes HP's IP. It is perfectly legal to reverse engineer > >VMS but it isn't legal to steal code. > > Do you think they'll bother? I know DEC didn't when a similar issue was > brought to their attention! 1000s of lines of code verbatim! There used to was a utility on Hunter's FILESERV that would convert "source" listings back to usable source code... David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:53:22 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4797EF92.4B6FCD65@spam.comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article <47951a54$0$15754$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, > JF Mezei writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > >> Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is > >> less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to > >> write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed > >> to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a > >> different user interface. > > > > > > When VMS was moved from VAX to Alpha, there were many claims that "VMS > > is VMS" even if the innards were very different, your apps would > > recompile and run without much trouble. > > > > And again, when VMS was moved to that IA64 contraption, the same was > > said, even though big portion of the booting process had to be rewritten > > , and the image file format changed to follow Intel stanards. > > > > > > If freeVMS ends up having a different kernel, but to the user and system > > manager, it still looks and smells like VMS, then there is no reason to > > discredit it. > > I think you are missing the point. I thas nothing to do with what it > can or can not be called. If it is still primarily a linux kernel then > it will have all the same bugs and security problems that other linux > kernels have. My impression was that the security issues were in the layers outside the kernel. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 02:32:49 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vqbmgF1nd9emU1@mid.individual.net> In article <4797EE63.4A10CF34@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >> >> In article , JKB >> writes: >> >> > Today, FreeVMS is _only_ a VMS clone. >> >> How long has the project been going on? What has it got to offer? Does >> anyone outside the project take it seriously? >> >> > But it is the only chance to >> > keep VMS alive for a long time. >> >> I'm not a lawyer, but presumably if it becomes viable HP can and will >> take legal action against it. > > I rather doubt that. > > HP will not spend a cent or lift a finger to keep VMS alive. > > I see no reason to believe they would pursue litigation to defend > something they do not want. They have a raft of lawyers already on the payroll. How long do you think it would take on to draft a cease&desist letter? Would you ignore it? > > I'd tend to believe that a "free" VMS would relieve them of the burden > of maintaining it at some point in the future, when the remaining > community would embrace the "free" version in leiu of the "real thing" > so they could drop it once and for all and be done with it. They can drop it anytime they want. They don't need to wait for someone to come up with a replacement. And anyway, Bill Gates already has. > > Sort of gives one pause to consider that HP might help/encourage FreeVMS > just to finally get the "albatross" off their neck, eh? ;-) It's called a cash cow, not an albatross. They will sit there doing nothing until the money dries up and the they will continue ----- doing nothing. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2008 02:35:56 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <5vqbscF1nd9emU2@mid.individual.net> In article <4797EF92.4B6FCD65@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> In article <47951a54$0$15754$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, >> JF Mezei writes: >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> > >> >> Really? What percent of the kernel has been re-written? My guess is >> >> less than 1%. It's linux. And until you take the time and effort to >> >> write an entire new kernel that implements the VMS paradigm as opposed >> >> to the Unix paradigm it will continue to be nothing bu Linux with a >> >> different user interface. >> > >> > >> > When VMS was moved from VAX to Alpha, there were many claims that "VMS >> > is VMS" even if the innards were very different, your apps would >> > recompile and run without much trouble. >> > >> > And again, when VMS was moved to that IA64 contraption, the same was >> > said, even though big portion of the booting process had to be rewritten >> > , and the image file format changed to follow Intel stanards. >> > >> > >> > If freeVMS ends up having a different kernel, but to the user and system >> > manager, it still looks and smells like VMS, then there is no reason to >> > discredit it. >> >> I think you are missing the point. I thas nothing to do with what it >> can or can not be called. If it is still primarily a linux kernel then >> it will have all the same bugs and security problems that other linux >> kernels have. > > My impression was that the security issues were in the layers outside > the kernel. Some of them. But the kernel has more than it's share of warts. Just as an example, which kernel did they choose as their starting point? A generic kernel or one with the NSA security patches? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:54:32 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <47981b12$0$507$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > It's called a cash cow, not an albatross. They will sit there doing > nothing until the money dries up and the they will continue ----- > doing nothing. HP realised that doing nothing wasn't enough. last yesr, the actively took measures such as telling Cerner to stop developing on VMS in order to quicken the pace of migration from VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:04:16 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: <47981d4c$0$16240$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> John E. Malmberg wrote: > It might be more useful to add the stuff that is missing to xterm and > port xterm to VMS. NO ! For one thing, there is no longer any development (or very little) for DECwindows on VMS. The message is quite clear from the onwer of vMS that VMS isn't for interactive use. Secondly and more importantly, DECterminal would provide a lot of value to the world community by providing a complete VT emulation, scolling bars. Since DEC developped the VT standard, making DECterm available would further increase Digital's long lasting legacy to the world and make even the young ones know that it was Digital that developped it. > Fred Kleinsorge has posted before that the DECterm code has some special > stuff to make the display update better. Maybe he could give some > pointers on how to do this with xterm. If I recall, it was about what X routines were used to draw the stuff. They were using a lower level call to X to draw glyphs instead of the higher level calls to draw chartacters with attributes. Also, wasn't DECterm available on Tru64 too ? If so, it would mean that the code inside wouldn't be *too* tied to VMS. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:35:58 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: DECTerm and xterm (was: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set) Message-ID: Thomas Dickey wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Thomas Dickey wrote: >>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> DECterm, being a proper implementation of the VT standards with most of >>>> the VT bells and whistles (except tracing of control characters) would >>>> be a great donation to the open source world, replacing Xterm which is >>>> really really basic. >>> too little, too late - DECterm doesn't support UTF-8 > >> If it were open sourced (which I do not find likely to happen, but >> let us assume) then would it be hard to add ? > > It'd be a fair-sized chunk of work to do (a few months for someone working > at it). It might be more useful to add the stuff that is missing to xterm and port xterm to VMS. Fred Kleinsorge has posted before that the DECterm code has some special stuff to make the display update better. Maybe he could give some pointers on how to do this with xterm. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:31:53 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. There are three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. HPUX and Windows come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 2008 20:08:48 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <5vpl6gF1mjodhU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Rich Jordan writes: > DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty > good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. There are > three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. HPUX and Windows > come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. > > Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it > would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. And people here still won't see the writing on the wall!!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:04:12 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: In article , Rich Jordan writes: > > >DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty >good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. There are >three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. HPUX and Windows >come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. > >Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it >would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. Does DSPP know what VMS is? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:24:21 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <4797b090$0$25476$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 23-1-2008 22:04 VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote... > Does DSPP know what VMS is? Yes. There is still a route to obtain ISV VMS development licenses through DSPP. -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:50:40 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: In article <4797b090$0$25476$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout writes: > > >on 23-1-2008 22:04 VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote... > > >> Does DSPP know what VMS is? > >Yes. There is still a route to obtain ISV VMS development licenses >through DSPP. Facetiousness is too easily misunderstood here. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:24:52 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:04:12 -0800, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > In article > , > Rich Jordan writes: >> >> >> DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty >> good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. There are >> three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. HPUX and Windows >> come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. >> >> Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it >> would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. > > Does DSPP know what VMS is? Just renewed DSPP this morning and on one page, which was giving me pain with both Opera and Firefox, I found 91 violations using validator And yes, VMS is one of the options. > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:34:34 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <_hPlj.5$PV7.1@newsfe09.lga> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > >On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:04:12 -0800, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > >> In article >> , >> Rich Jordan writes: >>> >>> >>> DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty >>> good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. There are >>> three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. HPUX and Windows >>> come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. >>> >>> Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it >>> would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. >> >> Does DSPP know what VMS is? > >Just renewed DSPP this morning and on one page, which was giving me pain >with both Opera and Firefox, I found 91 violations using validator What sort of violations? Violations because the pages were most likely authored with some M$ tool? Other errors? >And yes, VMS is one of the options. Yes, I know. I was just communicating with an HP employee about DSPP. I have two forms I'm supposed to fill out which were initially sent to me in M$ formats when I explicitly told them I don't do M$. They were then sent in .PDF but I don't think the M$ to PDF conversions went well. One of the forms is nothing but lines. On another where I am to put my signature, it has the signature line atop of other text. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:49:06 -0800 (PST) From: Rod Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <5579e1c2-d27f-4ac1-a08d-74834b04cd0d@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com> DSPP members can request a "free" OpenVMS/Integrity 8.3-1H1 dist kit (DVD/CD) and OpenVMS/Integrity license PAK kit thru the DSPP web pages. (I did just that - successfully). The PAK kit includes MCOE level licensing. Use that with the HPUX Integrity remanufactured RX1620 hardware kit and you should be "good to go". Licensed components from the DSPP-supplied .COM file: $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS - $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS-REM - $ LICENSE REGISTER ACMS-RT - $ LICENSE REGISTER BASIC - $ LICENSE REGISTER C - $ LICENSE REGISTER COBOL - $ LICENSE REGISTER CXX-V - $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-APP-DEV - $ LICENSE REGISTER DCE-CDS - $ LICENSE REGISTER DFG - $ LICENSE REGISTER DFS - $ LICENSE REGISTER DQS - $ LICENSE REGISTER DTR - $ LICENSE REGISTER DVNETEXT - $ LICENSE REGISTER FMS - $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS - $ LICENSE REGISTER FORMS-RT - $ LICENSE REGISTER FORTRAN - $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS - $ LICENSE REGISTER GKS-RT - $ LICENSE REGISTER GWLM - $ LICENSE REGISTER PASCAL - $ LICENSE REGISTER RTR-CL - $ LICENSE REGISTER RTR-SVR - $ LICENSE REGISTER SAVE-SET-MANAGER - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-3270-DSPI - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-3270-TE - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-API - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-APPC-LU6.2 - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-DTF-SVR - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-DTF-UTL - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-PRE - $ LICENSE REGISTER SNA-RJE - $ LICENSE REGISTER SW-RAID5 - $ LICENSE REGISTER TDMS - $ LICENSE REGISTER TDMS-RT - $ LICENSE REGISTER VAXCLUSTER - $ LICENSE REGISTER VAXSET - $ LICENSE REGISTER X25 - $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-I64-MCOE - - Rod Regier Dymaxion Research Ltd. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:02:29 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <4797C785.2020409@comcast.net> Tom Linden wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:04:12 -0800, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > >> In article >> , >> Rich Jordan writes: >> >>> >>> >>> DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty >>> good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. There are >>> three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. HPUX and Windows >>> come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. >>> >>> Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it >>> would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. >> >> >> Does DSPP know what VMS is? > > > Just renewed DSPP this morning and on one page, which was giving me pain > with both Opera and Firefox, I found 91 violations using validator Q: How many Microsoft Programmers does it take to replace a light bulb? A: Darkness is the new standard! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:27:34 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <5d2d4663-53f9-4566-9d62-0454109528ab@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jan 23, 2:31=A0pm, Rich Jordan wrote: > DSPP is providing refurbished low end Integrity servers at a pretty > good price to DSPP members, along with a quantity break. =A0There are > three options: one HPUX, one Linux, and one Windows. =A0HPUX and Windows > come with what appear to be licensed copies of their respective OS's. > > Its great to see these being provided at pretty nice prices, but it > would have been especially nice to have a VMS option. I saw this post and am tracking it down. Sue ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 2008 21:39:58 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: In article <_hPlj.5$PV7.1@newsfe09.lga>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >>Just renewed DSPP this morning and on one page, which was giving me pain >>with both Opera and Firefox, I found 91 violations using validator > > What sort of violations? Violations because the pages were most likely > authored with some M$ tool? Other errors? There are only two possible causes of such violations: 1. The page author did not try to validate the pages. 2. When the pages did not validate the page author did not care. Whether they use Frontpage or TECO, validation is the way you check. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:58:00 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DSPP Integrity remanufactured hardware offerings, no VMS option Message-ID: <47981be3$0$507$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > There are only two possible causes of such violations: > > 1. The page author did not try to validate the pages. > 2. When the pages did not validate the page author did not care. 3. The author thinks his MS fancy HTML producing software cannot make mistakes and that anything it generates will be standards compliant. (so never any need to validate it againsts the real standards( ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:57:38 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: F$UNIQUE library function Message-ID: <4797F092.9B1EE120@spam.comcast.net> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > > > Who told you that rule? Kerry? You were misinformed. > > > > bill > > > > That's what I saw in the companies I worked for that used Windows > servers. (Some used Novell instead). And this was all from four to > fourteen years ago( back to Windows 3.1)! I was not, however, a Windows > support person; the closest I came to that was taking over the > Anti-malware effort at my last employer. Oh! You moved them to VMS, right? ;-) David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:47:43 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: GNV 2.1 mount points question Message-ID: Pierre wrote: > hi, > > in all the examples I can find, the "mount" command uses a directory > under psx$root:[mnt] as mount point resulting in posix filename > looking like "/mnt/..." for symbolic links > > is it mandatory to use directory under psx$root:[mnt] or mayI use > directory at the same level as mnt.dir in order to not have the /mnt/" > as a prefix of each and every posix filename for symbolic links ? It is not mandatory, you can put mount points where ever you want on an ODS-5 disk that the posix root is on. Symbolic links can contain relative references and references to other symbolic links. So you can put the mounts under /mnt, and put a symbolic link in / to them. The only time the /mnt name would have to show up is in the output to the realpath() routine. Just make sure that you do not mount a disk on a subdirectory of the same disk. That will create an infinite directory loop for wild card lookups. See ftp://ftp.encompasserve.org/gnv for unsupported updates to GNV. I have to use the bash from the update kit, for some reason the one supplied with the new GNV is not working with Configure scripts. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:15:14 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: In Stock Message-ID: <4797F4B2.CD3D3AD1@spam.comcast.net> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: > > Well, if you have the Monitor and Keyboard it ain't so bad. > Granted the complete kit does seem a little high but we aren't making much I'm using a VT525 system box along with an HP 1U KVM as a console terminal for my two Sunquest Alphas at work. Very handy way to re-implement the KVM since we never use DECwindows on those machines My only gripe is the inability to have more than three sessions active: COM1, COM2 and COM3. So, I use COM3 for the storage arrays and switch the cable manually between the HSGs on the ES45 and the HSZs on the ES40 when I need to. Neat trick, by the way - read the manual carefully! CAPS-LOCK + KP1, KP2 or KP3 switches directly to hose sessions, respectively. F4 toggles thru them, as usual, of course. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:37:07 -0800 (PST) From: bob.birch@gmail.com Subject: Re: marine computer gearheads - Trying to identify possible VAX 780. Message-ID: <2146b30d-31a3-4d30-9f5c-45aaa6855d53@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 23, 9:35 am, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: > bob.bi...@gmail.com wrote: > > I'm attending an excellent 2 day marine diesel engine > > workshop on Yanmar engines (Trawlerfest.com) and > > have a few questions for any marine computer > > gearheads: > > > 1. One of the handouts show a network of service > > computers with the capability of monitoring engine > > data in the field, repair shop and production > > floor. All the data is fed back to a server that looks > > like a older Vax 780+. Yanmar builds the engines > > in Adairsville, Georgia, Netherlands and Osaka. > > Anyone know if it's a Vax server. > > Can you provide a URL to a copy of the handout on their website or > another website? There are a lot of links on the URL you gave. No link to the handout, it's not on the web site. > > > 2. The newer 6 cyl Yanmars have a Electronic Control > > System (ECS), controlling/monitoring engine with a > > CAN Bus. The bus looks like NMEA 2000 or RS422 > > or Ethernet. Not sure. > > Anyone know what it is? > > A link to the picture would also probably be needed. Googling NMEA 2000 ethernet shows: - It's a spec written by Intel and Bosch - Developed by 2 Universities, 45 companies including SUN and major boating equipment firms - Although the physical layer is like Ethernet, it's different with new protocols, electrical spec, etc. Still digging for info and will be aboard a couple trawlers this weekend to get a close look plus talk to Furno, etc.. > > -John > wb8...@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:55:07 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Mystery of X-windows colours/resources Message-ID: <4797EFFB.95880AFB@spam.comcast.net> VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <47975be1$0$15769$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > > > > >Some progress: > > > >You can create a resource file on the Mac (for instance .X11defaults ) > >and then use: > > > >xrdb .X11defaults and this dynamically reads the resources and updates > >the X11 server's dynamic database. The next application that pops a > >window on the MAC will then have those resources available to it. > > > >*background: White works. (gets rid of the "default" blue.) > > > >However, I am unable to get Motif resources to change. > > > >For instance: > > *menu*background: Grey > >or > > *MenuBar*background: Grey > > > >is ignored and the menu bar insists on having same background as the > >whole window. > > > >Similarly, I am unable to change attributes for the ScrollBar . > > > >The Mac doesn't come with Motif. Since those resources I create are on > >ther Mac and read by the Xserver software, does this mean that the > >Xserver will ignore those resources since it doesn't know about Motif > >and will only understand raw X/Xt resources ? > > Which is why I will not part with the PowerBook and eXodus. I only > wish that the PowerLan-USA people would see to it that a build on an > intel Mac were made available. I looked on their website and found what appeared to be an Intel version. I may have been mistaken. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:23:52 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <4797e89d$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Thomas Dickey wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> DECterm, being a proper implementation of the VT standards with most of >> the VT bells and whistles (except tracing of control characters) would >> be a great donation to the open source world, replacing Xterm which is >> really really basic. > > too little, too late - DECterm doesn't support UTF-8 If it were open sourced (which I do not find likely to happen, but let us assume) then would it be hard to add ? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:50:23 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <13pfrmva1j65j55@corp.supernews.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Thomas Dickey wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> DECterm, being a proper implementation of the VT standards with most of >>> the VT bells and whistles (except tracing of control characters) would >>> be a great donation to the open source world, replacing Xterm which is >>> really really basic. >> >> too little, too late - DECterm doesn't support UTF-8 > If it were open sourced (which I do not find likely to happen, but > let us assume) then would it be hard to add ? It'd be a fair-sized chunk of work to do (a few months for someone working at it). -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:03:44 -0800 (PST) From: madcrow Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <8d17a76e-af83-473e-b5a0-2e867914ebe6@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 23, 7:12 am, Thomas Dickey wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > DECterm, being a proper implementation of the VT standards with most of > > the VT bells and whistles (except tracing of control characters) would > > be a great donation to the open source world, replacing Xterm which is > > really really basic. > > too little, too late - DECterm doesn't support UTF-8 > > -- > Thomas E. Dickeyhttp://invisible-island.netftp://invisible-island.net Given it's likely role of emulating terminals where full compliance with real VT specs is needed, it would never NEED to do UTF-8. There's not many "legacy systems" that use Unicode after all... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:56:08 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <4797fe3d$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Thomas Dickey wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Thomas Dickey wrote: >>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> DECterm, being a proper implementation of the VT standards with most of >>>> the VT bells and whistles (except tracing of control characters) would >>>> be a great donation to the open source world, replacing Xterm which is >>>> really really basic. >>> too little, too late - DECterm doesn't support UTF-8 > >> If it were open sourced (which I do not find likely to happen, but >> let us assume) then would it be hard to add ? > > It'd be a fair-sized chunk of work to do (a few months for someone working > at it). In my view that means possible if there is a real demand for the feature. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:09:44 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: OT: Davos Message-ID: <47982ca4$0$16163$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Out of curiosity, I checked the attendance list for the World Economic Forum at Davos. http://www.weforum.org/en/events/AnnualMeeting2008/index.htm Our beloved friend Carleton Fiorina doesn't appear in the "public figures" or "business leaders". She must really miss the limelight, all the attention and being seen amongst the rich and famous of the world. Poor Carly, we should all feel very sorry for her :-) :-) :-) Mark Hurd is not listed. But Mikey Dell and the chairman of Lenovo are listed. Intel and AMD are also represented by their respective chairman. IBM not listed. (but the list is not complete mind you). Google (Page and Brin), Yahoo and Akamai are present. I wonder if Hurd is really opposed to attending, or whether Carly left such a bitter taste because she attended purely for the glamour that HP doesn't really want its CEO to attend. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:23:55 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Message-ID: <%ESlj.3$xe5.0@newsfe11.lga> In article , Fred Bach writes: >{...snip...} > Here's one of those stupid but necessary questions - did you restart > everything with the AutoPlace set to False? Blow away the X sessions > and all Decterms and completely start again. $ @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART > Yes, I would look through *every* DECW$*.DAT resource file for any > parameter that has "place" or "locat" in it. Also, see if you can > find out what the ScreenMode resource does. I recall that we also > had trouble with that one until I played around (we have it set to > off now), but I don't have an explanatory URL on it at the moment. > And, as I recall, the window gravity resource had some effect. > (in DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT) DECW$TERMINAL.winGravity: 1 Nothing about gravity in my DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT. > But here is another thought - I don't recall what platform you are > displaying your X DecTerms on, but with mine I have the capability > of running a window manager on one of the Alpha Servers (running > OpenVMS 8.2) or on one of the Itaniums, OR I can run the Window > Manager on the Windows 2000-Pro PC under Xwin-32. Many people here > choose to use the PC window manager but I don't - so that several > different session managers can have all their own window colours > for their X DecTerms for easy recognition of what server and what > account I am using at the time. Quite often I can have 5 session > managers running in 5 different accounts on several different VMS > servers. I doubt that changing the DECW$MWM.DAT file would have > any effect if you don't run the window manager on a VMS machine. I can assure you it is NOT a Weendoze box. I'm working on my Alpha. > Also, it is possible to redefine the logical that points to the > directory that contains the DECW$*.DAT resource files to use. Now > quite often they are in SYS$LOGIN, but not always - and so there > could be more than one directory to look in. > > Just tryin' to help. I remember how frustrated we were here when > we had this same problem. I appreciate it. You've given me a glimmer of hope that it is, at least, doable. The problem now is the find the proper cauldron to recite the secret incantation over to make the magic work. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:32:30 -0800 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <47969184.3010708@triumf.ca>, Fred Bach writes: >> >> >> Been there, seen that. >> Here's an excerpt from letter I wrote to my colleagues in 2006: >> >> This may be a revelation to more than just myself, so I'm sending it >> around to anybody who might create DECTERM windows on an XTERM. >> >> It appeared that my DCL programs for some time now had no control >> over where I could place the DECTERMS created with CREATE/TERMINAL . >> >> No matter where I specified the X_POSITION and Y_POSITION to be, >> each new window would stack a little down and to the right of the >> last window until one edge of a window reached some limit or boundary, >> and then subsequent windows created with CREATE/TERMINAL would start in >> a totally different place. The window manager was trying to make sure >> that the whole window fitted onto the screen. All this happened with >> the identical CREATE/TERMINAL command where the x and Y position, and the >> rows and columns were specified all exactly the same. >> >> So I hunted up DECWINDOWS on GOOGLE, and found a DecWindows/Motif manual: >> >> http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/docs/base_doc/DOCUMENTATION/V40F_HTML/AQ917BTE/TITLE.HTM >> >> and it said this (for UNIX machines but what the heck...): >> >> >> ! This determines default placement of window when there is >> ! no specification by the user >> ! Set to true to have Mwm stagger the positions of a window >> ! from the top left corner >> Mwm*clientAutoPlace: False >> >> >> So I added the above to my DECW$MWM.DAT file (comments and all) >> and now CREATE/TERMINAL places the window correctly on my screen. >> >> It's a shame there isn't some online DCL HELP command to list >> and *explain* all these DecWindows 'resource' items. >> >> Cheers, >> >> .. Fred .. > > Thanks Fred but it doesn't seem to make any difference here. > > Your post prompted me to look through the DT resource files too but I don't > see anything that looks as if it will affect the placement in those either. Here's one of those stupid but necessary questions - did you restart everything with the AutoPlace set to False? Blow away the X sessions and all Decterms and completely start again. Yes, I would look through *every* DECW$*.DAT resource file for any parameter that has "place" or "locat" in it. Also, see if you can find out what the ScreenMode resource does. I recall that we also had trouble with that one until I played around (we have it set to off now), but I don't have an explanatory URL on it at the moment. And, as I recall, the window gravity resource had some effect. (in DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT) DECW$TERMINAL.winGravity: 1 But here is another thought - I don't recall what platform you are displaying your X DecTerms on, but with mine I have the capability of running a window manager on one of the Alpha Servers (running OpenVMS 8.2) or on one of the Itaniums, OR I can run the Window Manager on the Windows 2000-Pro PC under Xwin-32. Many people here choose to use the PC window manager but I don't - so that several different session managers can have all their own window colours for their X DecTerms for easy recognition of what server and what account I am using at the time. Quite often I can have 5 session managers running in 5 different accounts on several different VMS servers. I doubt that changing the DECW$MWM.DAT file would have any effect if you don't run the window manager on a VMS machine. Also, it is possible to redefine the logical that points to the directory that contains the DECW$*.DAT resource files to use. Now quite often they are in SYS$LOGIN, but not always - and so there could be more than one directory to look in. Just tryin' to help. I remember how frustrated we were here when we had this same problem. We have one supervisor here who lays out most of our Controls displays, and he had this same problem of window placement, and I believe he solved it in a different way than with AutoPlace (I don't think he runs the window manager on VMS). The placement positions are in the application spec's file, but still there was some work he had to do to overcome that annoying automatic tiling that you described as your problem. I don't recall what he did. When he is back on shift I will try to have a wee chat with him. Of course I might not see him until I get back from my upcoming vacation somewhere warm and sunny next month. Cheers, . fred . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:52:31 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Message-ID: <47981a9a$0$507$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , Fred Bach writes: >>{...snip...} >> Here's one of those stupid but necessary questions - did you restart >> everything with the AutoPlace set to False? Blow away the X sessions >> and all Decterms and completely start again. > > $ @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART The XRBD utility exists on VMS in decw$utils. It can reload the Xserver (Xterminal) resource database from scratch without having to restart everything. Won't change existing windows, but new ones get the new resources. Note that I am not sure if DECterms immediatly get new resources since there is a controller process that can hahdle up to 4 decterms if I recall properly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:21:26 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Positioning xterm windows from DCL (was Re: CREATE/TERMINAL /NOPROCESS vs /N Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article , Fred Bach writes: >>> {...snip...} >>> Here's one of those stupid but necessary questions - did you restart >>> everything with the AutoPlace set to False? Blow away the X sessions >>> and all Decterms and completely start again. >> $ @SYS$STARTUP:DECW$STARTUP RESTART > The XRBD utility exists on VMS in decw$utils. It can reload the Xserver > (Xterminal) resource database from scratch without having to restart > everything. Won't change existing windows, but new ones get the new > resources. > > Note that I am not sure if DECterms immediatly get new resources since > there is a controller process that can hahdle up to 4 decterms if I > recall properly. The properties like window position and such are referred to as "hints" from the client, which the server may or may not honor. Some years ago, I was asked to investigate replacing a VAXstation 2000 that was just being used as a display kiosk for reports with a PC, because the VAXstation 2000s had been discontinued, and PCs were getting cheap. I tested several X11 emulators. Of them, only eXcursion honored the hints of where to put the windows displayed. I had to have one screen on the top, and this left room for 1/2 screen on the display, so we put the top half of a second chart there on the VAXstation displays. Except for eXcursion, all the other X11 emulators insisted in moving the lower display upward so that it was within the displayed area, and covering up the primary display. It came to naught on the project. It turned out that the price of the 25 inch monitor was the major cost item, and that was the same no matter what was driving it. A disk less Vaxstation 2000 basically just runs forever unattended as a satellite of a VAXcluster. The things refused to die, and the project was never implemented while I was there. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:57:24 +0100 From: "CyberCityNews" Subject: Re: The global village, the operating system version Message-ID: <4797b834$0$99023$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk> P. Sture wrote: > In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG > wrote: > >> In article <4795541b$0$15779$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei >> writes: >>> >>> >>> Marshall McCluhen had discussed the concept of the global village. >>> A lot of it is happening but with a twist: english language is the >>> lowest common denominator, and only cultural contributiosn in >>> english (with a few exceptions) are adopted and globally >>> distributed around the world. >>> >>> For instance, the french songs from Céline Dion never made it out of >>> Québec, but her english songs (unfortunatly) did. Similarly, the >>> norvegian group A-Ha didn't succeed by signing in norwegian, their >>> global success was due to english songs. But once a culture >>> succeeds in injecting some of its own into the global village, it >>> becomes healthier because it becomes mainstream inside that culture >>> and also known outside of that local culture. >> >> On the otherhand, several Italian progressive bands where quite >> successful and sang in Italian. Perhaps, the A-Ha and the Celion >> Dion aren't all that good so people need to hear them in a language >> they'd understand. > > Living where I do, I used to really enjoy listening to German, French > and Italian songs (and their versions of English songs) on the radio > as I was driving to and from work, and at home too. Unfortunately > since about 2002 we only seem to get the playlist crud that you could > listen to anywhere in the world. Blondie released lot of tracks in French Dweeb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:04:29 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: This NG seems unusually quiet... Message-ID: <4797F22D.C3A3E041@spam.comcast.net> Slor wrote: > > Hey David - I recognized the company name in your sig and just wanted to > give a quick thanks for your write-up on OpenVMS CD-ROM burning from > back in the day. The info on successfully burning raw images using > other platforms was instrumental in bringing my Alpha back to life. Glad I could help. > Not hearing much about VMS in my professional life or having any > previous idea about the current state of things, I was actually > expecting LESS traffic when I found this newsgroup. I'm enjoying my re- > integration into the OS, so I hope to see things pick back up to the > levels you all are used to! Glad you're able to come back to VMS. Where I work, we're going to AIX (Google this group for "Cerner"). So, come August or so, my VMS days come to an unofficial end. Actually, I'm hoping to be out of EDP by then and into something more lucrative. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:50:05 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses Message-ID: <12cefc8e-7074-4e8b-8ba7-c6de372e0d6f@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Jan 23, 12:16=A0pm, "P. Sture" wrote: > In article > , > > =A0Sue wrote: > > On Jan 21, 5:32=A0pm, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > We've seen you in front of crowds,Sue. You've got your own special > > > gift, and more heart than 10 Steve Jobs's put together. > > > > ...better lookin', too! ;-) > > > ok now I am Way flattered. > > > By the way folks I have a plaque that was given to me from the > > original ground breaking of ZKO. =A0I think it will make a nice Digital > > (pun intended) picture. > > Glad to catch youSue. Today I had a brief power cut and realized (Oops > a little late) that it was the time of year to renew my Hobbyist > licenses. > > I duly visitedhttp://www.openvmshobbyist.com/register.phpand the > process was absolutely painless. Please pass my personal thanks on to > those who not only Hobbyist licenses possible in the first place, but > continue to do so. > > -- > Paul Sture > > Sue'sOpenVMS bookmarks:http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmar= ks.html Dear Paul, Thank you very much. I have let them know. Warm Regards, sue ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.047 ************************