INFO-VAX Sun, 27 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 53 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? RE: Davos Re: Davos Re: Davos Re: Davos Re: Davos Re: Davos RE: Davos Re: Davos Re: DEGXA Gigabit card special Re: DEGXA Gigabit card special Re: Installing MX 4.2 Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Problem: DECterm and X.Org version: 1.4.0 Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: Using disk space on NAS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Jan 2008 19:53:21 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <601hdhF1ono4oU2@mid.individual.net> In article , JKB writes: > >> If you want to know what I think the best solution is, (well, you >> probably don't, but I'll say it anyway) I think a group of people >> who are interested in the ability to run VMS programs and have the >> security and stability VMS offers should take something like NetBSD >> or OpenBSD and create a new tree. > > Why NetBSD or OpenBSD were better than Linux kernel ? 1. Because they are not infected with the GNU Public Virus 2. Because they actually use the 30-some years of computing research rather than re-inventing things (badly) because of NIH syndrome. I'm sure if I gave it a few more minutes I could come up with more reasons, but those two alone are more than enough. especially if one expects this OS to be used in a commercial environement which I would expect was the reason for wanting a VMS clone in the first place. > A such project > should start with an existant kernel and some patches against this > kernel to replace all old syscalls by new one that clone VMS. Rather than just tryng to use existing kernels it would be better of to split a new tree as it is unlikely that most of your changes would find their way back into the original tree and you would find yourself constantly patching and re-patching and in some cases even re-engineering patches to get around conflicting changes that will be made to the pure Unix source tree. > >> In this tree they should start by >> going over the code with a fine tooth comb and eliminating any of >> the well documented C pitfalls that are still present (my guess is >> that lint would point out piles of things that should be fixed in >> the name of "good programming practice"). One could even take it >> a step further and re-write all of it in some other language than >> C (Ada maybe?) a module at a time until it was all converted. Then >> Add the stuff that NSA came up with for "secure Linux" (how's that >> for an oxymoron) like Mandatory Access Controls. And then start >> adding the things that make VMS what it is. A clone of DCL. A clone >> of RMS. A filesystem with the same features as the VMS filesystem >> (ACL's, versioning, etc.) > > It's done. We have a driver for ODS/2 and 5. And FreeVMS can boot > over an ODS/2 partition. Good. Now if you actually had a real VMS kernel instead of a patched Linux kernel you might begin to approach a real VMS clone. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 2008 22:20:55 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <601q26F1p0i7fU1@mid.individual.net> In article , JKB writes: > Le 26-01-2008, à propos de > Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, > Bill Gunshannon écrivait dans comp.os.vms : >> In article , >> JKB writes: >>> >>>> If you want to know what I think the best solution is, (well, you >>>> probably don't, but I'll say it anyway) I think a group of people >>>> who are interested in the ability to run VMS programs and have the >>>> security and stability VMS offers should take something like NetBSD >>>> or OpenBSD and create a new tree. >>> >>> Why NetBSD or OpenBSD were better than Linux kernel ? >> >> 1. Because they are not infected with the GNU Public Virus > > Nope. If I write some code, I prefer this code cannot be used by > closed program. That's your priviledge. And totally irrelevant to my point. If you don't want to give your code away, stop calling it "free" cause it ain't. And don't expect me (or many others) to allow you to encumber our code. I prefer code that really is free. > >> 2. Because they actually use the 30-some years of computing research >> rather than re-inventing things (badly) because of NIH syndrome. > > I use NetBSD and NetBSD is not a good Unix kernel. I have debug some > feature in NetBSD/Sparc and I know this kernel very well. What's your point? There is no code in existant that doesn't have bugs. But at least they didn't ignore 30 years of research. I have used Linux and I have yet to find any Linux kernel that performs as well as any of the BSD kernels. Especially when it comes to networking stacks. > >> I'm sure if I gave it a few more minutes I could come up with more >> reasons, but those two alone are more than enough. especially if one >> expects this OS to be used in a commercial environement which I would >> expect was the reason for wanting a VMS clone in the first place. > > ? > >>> A such project >>> should start with an existant kernel and some patches against this >>> kernel to replace all old syscalls by new one that clone VMS. >> >> Rather than just tryng to use existing kernels it would be better of >> to split a new tree as it is unlikely that most of your changes would >> find their way back into the original tree and you would find yourself >> constantly patching and re-patching and in some cases even re-engineering >> patches to get around conflicting changes that will be made to the pure >> Unix source tree. > > FreeVMS kernel is not a patch against Linux kernel. You never answered my question. What percent is from the original Linux kernel and what percent is re-written as VMS? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. I'm thru with this topic. I am not going to convice you that the GPL Linux are bad ideas so there's no sense wasting the bandwidth. I have said what I think it would take to truly clone VMS. I know it is not going to happen so I will go back to watching the rapid decline of VMS until the time comes to say, "I told you so." At least I can still use it at home as a hobbyist even if I doubt I will ever see it in either a commercial or educational setting again. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:18:21 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <47993640$0$30971$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > Did VMS used to be much more popular and well known? Yes. Does HP now > > completely neglect VMS? No. It still generates a lot of revenue, most > > of that from wealthy customers with whom there is regular contact. > > Have you heard that HP last summer told Cerner it was OK to stop > developing the one big remaining VMS cash cow (the hospital management > software) ? I saw it mentioned here. Even if true, that's one customer. > In the case of HP, VMS is peanuts compared to the total profits. Can you quote a percentage? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:30:56 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <479bfaeb$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> yyyc186 wrote: > So far, every company I've encountered which is jumping is jumping > completely away from HP. No hardware or software from them, including > printers. Total revenue increased from 91 B$ in 2006 to 104 B$ in 2007. Somebody must be buying something from them ! Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:59:20 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <479c0195$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 23-1-2008 14:56 Richard B. Gilbert wrote... >> Because nobody at HP knows that HP owns VMS? > > Probably. I know (and I know that a number of current HP ex-Digital > employees also know) of several instances where OpenVMS on SIMH is used > in a production environment, SIMH on Linux having replaced MicroVAX 3100 > systems or such. This is in violation of the SIMH license (Bob S. should > care, HP shouldn't), but also in violation of the OpenVMS license. How can it be a violation of the SIMH license ? It uses an BSD/MIT style license. Which in the very short version says: you need to keep the copyright notice in the docs & code and you can not blame the author for problems - anything else goes. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 01:43:07 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <479c291d$0$22100$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: >> Have you heard that HP last summer told Cerner it was OK to stop >> developing the one big remaining VMS cash cow (the hospital management >> software) ? > > I saw it mentioned here. Even if true, that's one customer. You misunderstand: Cerner is the creator of hospital management software used by hundreds of hospitals in the USA, and each hospital needs a lot of VMS hardware/software (redundancy etc). The fact that HP was happy with Cerner no longer develooping for VMS means that all VMS-based hospitals will have to migrate to non VMS platforms in the short/medium/long term. Consider that should the USA government pass some new standards for hospitals and adherance to those standards required a new version of the Cerner software, than any remaining VMS hospital will get a big push to move to a supported platform where the new version will be available. Remember that hospital management was a huge key market for VMS, one of the new remaining market niches that the owner of VMS had tolerated VMS remained in. Now, that is going away. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:41:19 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Davos Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] > Sent: January 26, 2008 12:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Davos > [snip..] > > Technology company??? I thought HP's major revenue source these days > was ink and toner! Nope - from Fy'07 Financial Review released to press: IPG (printing) - 28% PSG (personal Desktops/other) - 35% ESS (Enterprise Storage, Servers) - 18% Services - 16% Software - 2% Other - 1% :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:00:20 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Davos Message-ID: <479badef$0$15749$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > The fact is that approx 99% of the worlds CEO's are not at Davos because > they realize that it is primarily photo op's, rubbing shoulders with big > names and/or trying to leverage some time to promote their company. Only the more important world CEOs are invited. And they are invited because of their leadership skills and ability to influence the "world". It isn't so much Hurd selling ink at Davos, but rather Hurd discussing world affairs and how to help the developing world, manage the USA's fiscal problems etc. When you have a smart CEO, sending him to Davos benefits the corporation in many ways because it shows the coprporation has a good social conscience (because of the subjectes being debated at Davos) as well as showing that the corporation's CEO is more than just a glorified accountant. And yeah, it also does allow Hurd to mingle with his peers and maybe discuss business. Now, consider retail sales (which HP is focused on now (ink and personal pc). Mikey Dell was at Davos and discussed many social issues. HP wasn't represented. So, when an educated person wants to buy a PC, the fact that Dell was seen delving in "help the world" topics while HP wasn't is an asset to Dell, a liability for HP. Carly went to Davos to be seen mingling with the rich and famous. But there are many CEOs who go to Davos with a list of things to do. It all depends on why you go at Davos. And with the image Hurd built for himself, I feel that if he were to go to Davos, it would be to do serious stuff and both him and HP would benefit from it. If Hurd is a recluse and cannot be seen in public places (liek Howard Hughes), then that is a totally different issue. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 2008 22:22:49 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Davos Message-ID: <601q5pF1p0i7fU2@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:rgilbert88@comcast.net] >> Sent: January 26, 2008 12:15 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Davos >> > > [snip..] > >> >> Technology company??? I thought HP's major revenue source these days >> was ink and toner! > > Nope - from Fy'07 Financial Review released to press: > > IPG (printing) - 28% > PSG (personal Desktops/other) - 35% > ESS (Enterprise Storage, Servers) - 18% > Services - 16% > Software - 2% > Other - 1% So the biggest percent of HP revenue is in shilling for Bill Gates. Somehow I don't see that as much better than selling ink. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:49:35 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Davos Message-ID: <479bb8fc$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > "Main, Kerry" writes: >> Nope - from Fy'07 Financial Review released to press: >> >> IPG (printing) - 28% >> PSG (personal Desktops/other) - 35% >> ESS (Enterprise Storage, Servers) - 18% >> Services - 16% >> Software - 2% >> Other - 1% > > So the biggest percent of HP revenue is in shilling for Bill Gates. The desktop market is a huge part of the hardware market. > Somehow I don't see that as much better than selling ink. From the cynical point of view: a dollar is a dollar and it is not written on it whether it is earned selling PC with Windows or Itaniums with VMS. Arne ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 2008 23:07:13 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Davos Message-ID: <601sp0F1oleilU1@mid.individual.net> In article <479bb8fc$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article , >> "Main, Kerry" writes: >>> Nope - from Fy'07 Financial Review released to press: >>> >>> IPG (printing) - 28% >>> PSG (personal Desktops/other) - 35% >>> ESS (Enterprise Storage, Servers) - 18% >>> Services - 16% >>> Software - 2% >>> Other - 1% >> >> So the biggest percent of HP revenue is in shilling for Bill Gates. > > The desktop market is a huge part of the hardware market. > >> Somehow I don't see that as much better than selling ink. > > From the cynical point of view: a dollar is a dollar and it is > not written on it whether it is earned selling PC with Windows > or Itaniums with VMS. I guess it depends on how much of that revenue goes to MS to pay for the copy of Windows that goes out on every box and what percentage HP actually gets to keep. Margin on PC hardware is thiner than a sheet of paper. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:05:31 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Davos Message-ID: <479bcb45$0$15780$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> IPG (printing) - 28% >> PSG (personal Desktops/other) - 35% >> ESS (Enterprise Storage, Servers) - 18% >> Services - 16% >> Software - 2% >> Other - 1% > > So the biggest percent of HP revenue is in shilling for Bill Gates. > Somehow I don't see that as much better than selling ink. revenu != profit. HP acts as a reseller for Intel and Microsoft. They could sell billions, and billions but if the revenus go back t Intel and Micorsoft, there isn't much left for HP shareholders. But HP makes and sells its onw ink. So the ink is far more profitable, especially since it is sold at highway robbery prices and costs next to nothing to produce. Interesting that HP understands the higher profitablility of pushing ist own products when it comes to printers. But when it comes to operating systems, they act is a totally counter intuitive way, selling other people's product at the expense of its own products. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:28:34 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Davos Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > Sent: January 26, 2008 5:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Davos > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article > t>, > > "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> Nope - from Fy'07 Financial Review released to press: > >> > >> IPG (printing) - 28% > >> PSG (personal Desktops/other) - 35% > >> ESS (Enterprise Storage, Servers) - 18% > >> Services - 16% > >> Software - 2% > >> Other - 1% > > > > So the biggest percent of HP revenue is in shilling for Bill Gates. > > The desktop market is a huge part of the hardware market. > > > Somehow I don't see that as much better than selling ink. > > From the cynical point of view: a dollar is a dollar and it is > not written on it whether it is earned selling PC with Windows > or Itaniums with VMS. > > Arne Yep, the only thing the shareholders care about is the share price. How many shareholders quibble as to where it came from? Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:09:23 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Davos Message-ID: <479bf5de$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Main, Kerry wrote: >> From the cynical point of view: a dollar is a dollar and it is >> not written on it whether it is earned selling PC with Windows >> or Itaniums with VMS. > > Yep, the only thing the shareholders care about is the share price. > > How many shareholders quibble as to where it came from? None. It is called business. Arne ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 2008 22:02:25 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: DEGXA Gigabit card special Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > That;s funny. Just after marking it read I thought I should > have asked if they were QBUS. Of course, I would have put > it in my PDP-11 before even thinking about puting it into one > of my VAXen. :-) It is supported by Ultrix-11, right? :-) I believe there is a 100Mbit card available for Q-Bus, but given the speed of the Q-us itself it somehow seems pointless. OTOH, I wouldn't mind having a FDDI card to put in a MicroVAX II. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:46:09 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: DEGXA Gigabit card special Message-ID: healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> That;s funny. Just after marking it read I thought I should >> have asked if they were QBUS. Of course, I would have put >> it in my PDP-11 before even thinking about puting it into one >> of my VAXen. :-) It is supported by Ultrix-11, right? :-) > > I believe there is a 100Mbit card available for Q-Bus, but given the speed > of the Q-us itself it somehow seems pointless. OTOH, I wouldn't mind having > a FDDI card to put in a MicroVAX II. The only 100Mbit card that I can remember for VAX connected to a private bus on the VAX 4000-100 series that other I/O was also connected to. It was a third party offering. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:20:07 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Installing MX 4.2 Message-ID: <479bf864$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <479a62a0$1@news.langstoeger.at>, eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >> In article , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>> Tom Linden wrote: >>>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:02:11 -0800, Jan-Erik Söderholm >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I though I'd install MX on my little box over here. >>>>> ... >>>>> Found a kit at last on the Freeware-4 kit.... >>>>> ... >>>>> %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of MX V4.2 has failed. >>>>> >>>>> Jan-Erik. >>>> Why not use 5.4? >>> Yes, why not ? >> Because, since V5, MX was no longer free. (IIRC, I paid $499 then) >> It got Anti-SPAM features (which were ahead of time and worth every price). >> >>> Link ? >>> URL ? >> I could offer the kits, but I can't offer a license. That's the duty of Matt. >> >> http://www.madgoat.com/ >> >> But unfortunately, his website is down, and maybe his mailbox is as well. >> I do not think that he offers licenses now (at least, that was my impression >> when I last browsed his webserver) but I also don't think, that he declared >> MX V5 now as freeware (eg. he could offer a PAK here in the newsgroup for all). >> So, MX V4 is unfortunately still the only official MX freeware for you. >> >> But there is TCPware/Multinet/TCPIP, all in hobbyist versions, as U know... >> > > PMDF is also available from Process free for hobbyist use > > See > > http://www.process.com/openvms/hobbyist.html > > then just click on the License terms and PAKS link > and accept the license - you'll then be asked to fill in your details and what > software you want a license for. And for the more adventurous: http://james.apache.org/ It is free for any usage. It seems rather feature rich: SMTP, POP3, choice of file or database for storage, fetch mail, listserv, tested up to 2600 mails/minute on standard PC etc.. It should run on VMS (assuming Java and ODS-5 disk). And no - I have not tried myself. :-) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:16:13 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: In article <47992006$0$15735$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > HP still makes money from VMS, lots of it. Why should they open-source > > it? > > Because DECterm and TPU are parts of VMS that HP is not interested in. With all due respect, this is simply rubbish. There are lots of paying customers who use DECterm and TPU. They might not be interested in continued development---they might even prefer the "no development, never change a running system, if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality---but they certainly use it. DECterm and TPU are part of what they are paying for. People with support contracts can get bugs fixed. > HP clearly doesn't see any VMS technologies as advantages. It dumped > clusteing in favour of Veritas for HP-UX, and it most certaintaly isn't > going to port DECterm or TPU to HP-UX. Both products have been made > "mature" a very long time ago. They are in the same gang as FMS and so > many other utilities. Initially, DECnet Phase IV and FMS were not going to be ported to Itanium. Customer pressure changed that. > To HP, donating DECterm and TPU to the world community would not deprive > HP of any code/technology that HP values. Define "values". I would say they value that which makes them profit, and that includes VMS and parts of VMS even if they are relatively static. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 11:24:48 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Problem: DECterm and X.Org version: 1.4.0 Message-ID: <13pnll8103o139c@corp.supernews.com> I've run DECterms to all sorts of X Window System display servers over the years and never experienced this issue. It did not occur on earlier FreeBSD/XFree86 (though they are getting quite a while ago now) nor has it been reported over the years on all sorts of *x and thin clients (e.g. SunRay) in the workplace. Under X.Org 1.4.0 running on FreeBSD 6.3-RELEASE using KDE 3.5.8 as the desktop, a DECterm running on VMS V8.3 (and on V7.3, so it's not a recent VMS phenomenon) experiences short (one to a few seconds) pauses during focus events. These are inconsistent; not occuring every time the DECterm is focused or used but they do happen a *lot* and makes DECterm unusable (a pity). Other DECWindows applications (EDIT/TPU/INT=DECW, Mail, Clock, Mozilla) do not experience the same issue. This seems confined to the DECterm and its terminal component (pull-down menus seem to behave normally). It does not happen in EDIT/TPU/INT=DECW which *looks* like it is based on a similar GUI code-base. It is not a KWin issue as it behaves the same way under twm. Two sets of data are provided. 1) is an X Window System application running under Win-XP. It does not exhibit the problem. 2) is the problematic Xorg system under FreeBSD. Both these environments are run on the same (dual-boot) Athlon-64 box. First are the relevant sections from xdpyinfo and then a focus-in/focus-out sequence from xev. There doesn't seem to be any difference in the xev traces, just the unacceptable pause on the problematic DECterm. Anyone with any ideas? (I'm reluctant to give up DECterm on the VMS box.) 1) DISPLAY SERVER -------------- ... vendor string: StarNet Communications Corp. vendor release number: 8200 ... number of extensions: 21 Windows-WM SHAPE Extended-Visual-Information XInputExtension XTEST BIG-REQUESTS MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD DEC-XTRAP SYNC XKEYBOARD XC-MISC SECURITY TOG-CUP XFree86-Bigfont GLX SGI-GLX XFIXES RENDER RANDR X-Resource DAMAGE ... 1) NO PROBLEM DECTERM ------------------ EnterNotify event, serial 10, synthetic NO, window 0xa000b2, root 0x46, subw 0xa000b3, time 25892796, (301,2), root:(858,552), mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinearVirtual, same_screen YES, focus NO, state 16 KeymapNotify event, serial 10, synthetic NO, window 0x0, keys: 70 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 LeaveNotify event, serial 10, synthetic NO, window 0xa000b2, root 0x46, subw 0xa000b3, time 25895953, (265,-26), root:(822,524), mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinearVirtual, same_screen YES, focus NO, state 16 2) DISPLAY SERVER -------------- ... version number: 11.0 vendor string: The X.Org Foundation ... number of extensions: 33 BIG-REQUESTS Composite DAMAGE DOUBLE-BUFFER DPMS Extended-Visual-Information GLX MIT-SCREEN-SAVER MIT-SHM MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD RANDR RECORD RENDER SECURITY SGI-GLX SHAPE SYNC TOG-CUP X-Resource XAccessControlExtension XC-APPGROUP XC-MISC XFIXES XFree86-Bigfont XFree86-DGA XFree86-DRI XFree86-Misc XFree86-VidModeExtension XINERAMA XInputExtension XKEYBOARD XTEST XVideo ... 2) PROBLEM DECTERM --------------- EnterNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x280002c, root 0x63, subw 0x280002d, time 3094909565, (457,377), root:(491,452), mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinearVirtual, same_screen YES, focus NO, state 0 KeymapNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x0, keys: 99 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 FocusIn event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x280002c, mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinear KeymapNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x0, keys: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 PropertyNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x280002c, atom 0x1a9 (_KDE_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY), time 3094909568, state PropertyDelete LeaveNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x280002c, root 0x63, subw 0x280002d, time 3094915629, (635,393), root:(669,468), mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinearVirtual, same_screen YES, focus YES, state 0 FocusOut event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x280002c, mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinear PropertyNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x280002c, atom 0x1a9 (_KDE_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY), time 3094915632, state PropertyNewValue 2) NO PROBLEM EDIT/TPU/INT=DECW ---------------------------- EnterNotify event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x2c0000b, root 0x63, subw 0x2c0000c, time 3095119445, (382,341), root:(486,466), mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinearVirtual, same_screen YES, focus NO, state 0 KeymapNotify event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x0, keys: 99 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 FocusIn event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x2c0000b, mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinear KeymapNotify event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x0, keys: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 PropertyNotify event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x2c0000b, atom 0x1a9 (_KDE_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY), time 3095119448, state PropertyDelete LeaveNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2c0000b, root 0x63, subw 0x2c0000c, time 3095122149, (391,344), root:(495,469), mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinearVirtual, same_screen YES, focus YES, state 0 FocusOut event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2c0000b, mode NotifyNormal, detail NotifyNonlinear PropertyNotify event, serial 14, synthetic NO, window 0x2c0000b, atom 0x1a9 (_KDE_WM_WINDOW_OPACITY), time 3095122152, state PropertyNewValue -- The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference. [Richard Dawkins; River Out of Eden] ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 2008 21:59:15 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: Gremlin wrote: > JF has had (some) success using VMS as an NFS server for connecting his > Mac to it. I believe that others may have connected a VMS client to an > NFS share. He's had an amazing amount of luck with this, though I have to wonder if as he does more testing problems won't crop up. > However, for more than 2 years I have *not* been able to connect a VMS > client (up to v8.2) to an NFS share served by Linux (Ubuntu, RedHat and > SuSE) or Windows Server (2000, 2003 and 2003R2). This group and ITRC > can't provide assistance and the ITRC thread(s) about this have many > people with the same problem but noone with a solution. > It appears that the TCPIP stack from HP may be broken/sub-optimal or it > may be a VMS peculiarity - I certainly don't know and this group and > ITRC don't appear to either. > So, best of luck and if you can get a VMS client to connect and use > files from an NFS server on Linux/Windows, please let me know how you > did it - and perhaps the ITRC thread(s) as well!!! Well I don't have an NFS server on Linux or Windows, however, I've had no problems connecting to OpenBSD or FreeBSD. TCPIP> mount dnfs1: data1 /path="/mnt/data.1" /host="nas02" /system %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /mnt/data.1 mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] On the other hand, I think I found a bug in the LD Driver, I was able to accidentally type the wrong command and unmount the NFS volume out from under a logical disk which has LDA1: in an unusable state. An additional problem is that it looks like there might be a 1 or 2GB file limit in there somewhere. I'm still doing testing. So I'm not sure quite what is going wrong here. It is either with NFS, or the LD Driver. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:41:46 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: <13po9tadeiv4t85@corp.supernews.com> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Gremlin wrote: >> JF has had (some) success using VMS as an NFS server for connecting his >> Mac to it. I believe that others may have connected a VMS client to an >> NFS share. > > He's had an amazing amount of luck with this, though I have to wonder if as > he does more testing problems won't crop up. > >> However, for more than 2 years I have *not* been able to connect a VMS >> client (up to v8.2) to an NFS share served by Linux (Ubuntu, RedHat and >> SuSE) or Windows Server (2000, 2003 and 2003R2). This group and ITRC >> can't provide assistance and the ITRC thread(s) about this have many >> people with the same problem but noone with a solution. > >> It appears that the TCPIP stack from HP may be broken/sub-optimal or it >> may be a VMS peculiarity - I certainly don't know and this group and >> ITRC don't appear to either. > >> So, best of luck and if you can get a VMS client to connect and use >> files from an NFS server on Linux/Windows, please let me know how you >> did it - and perhaps the ITRC thread(s) as well!!! > > Well I don't have an NFS server on Linux or Windows, however, I've had no > problems connecting to OpenBSD or FreeBSD. > > TCPIP> mount dnfs1: data1 /path="/mnt/data.1" /host="nas02" /system > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /mnt/data.1 mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] > > On the other hand, I think I found a bug in the LD Driver, I was able to > accidentally type the wrong command and unmount the NFS volume out from > under a logical disk which has LDA1: in an unusable state. > > An additional problem is that it looks like there might be a 1 or 2GB file > limit in there somewhere. I'm still doing testing. So I'm not sure quite > what is going wrong here. It is either with NFS, or the LD Driver. > > Zane > Actually, mounting is no problem but trying to *read* the NFS-served data fails with a timeout. As noted, there are several ITRC threads about this with no solution - sigh..... ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.053 ************************