INFO-VAX Sat, 15 Mar 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 149 Contents: Re: CAUTION: post is ON TOPIC Re: MediaWiki on VMS Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. What Netcraft say about identifying the webserver OS Re: What Netcraft say about identifying the webserver OS Re: What Netcraft say about identifying the webserver OS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:46:19 -0500 From: Jeff Subject: Re: CAUTION: post is ON TOPIC Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > Has an update to the OpenVMS Alpha calling standard document ever > been done? Mine is pretty old (circa VMS 6.1) and I'm wondering if > there are any known errata in it. Just for fun I'm doing something > that requires walking the call chain and I'd like to know. Yes, an update was done when we were defining the calling standard for OpenVMS I64. Besides reorganizing the document, we did make a few tweaks to Alpha here and there. As near as I can recall all we did was clean up some ambiguity to address some unusual corner cases we noticed at the time. We made no changes of substance as far as walking the stack is concerned. If you are going to walk the call stack on Alpha, let LIB$GET_INVO_CONTEXT and LIB$GET_PREV_INVO_CONTEXT do all the heavy lifting for you. We knew that walking the stack would be something that we (and a few of our customers) would want to do, but it's way more difficult than on VAX. So we wrote the code to do it so you wouldn't have to. :-) There are similar routines on OpenVMS I64, where walking the call stack is even harder. All the stack walking routines are described in detail in the calling standard document. -Jeff -OpenVMS Calling Standard Member ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:55:32 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: MediaWiki on VMS Message-ID: issinoho wrote in news:6dd7b0a9-93c5-4e93-b1dc- 15a0315b0156@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com: > I managed to get MediaWiki running on OpenVMS but it wasn't without > problems. I know there was at least one enquiry about this in the past > so I have documented the process here, > http://vamp.issinoho.com/viewforum.php?f=19 > > Hope this helps a few people. > Cool. Netcraft.com reports that web site as running Windows Server 2008. I'm wondering why. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 18:31:47 -0600 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: In article <__idnYcN3PaCikfanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@giganews.com>, Chuck Forsberg writes: > System has a DLT tape in addition to the 9-track. > Also ethernet and two hard drives. System has > an old VMS on it and was working last time it was > powered up. The clock battery is dead so you must > enter the date when powering up. > > Free to a good home. You Haul. Portland Oregon > Satisfaction guaranteed or full purchase refunded > (S&H not included). > > caf@omen.com Greetings, Mr. Forsberg. Glad to have Mr. rzsz / Zmodem himself visit comp.os.vms . I still send out copies of your document on the state of affairs with regard to X/Y/Zmodem 'standards' to people who want something definitive on the topic. Yes, I'm interested - I will send you email - but I'm trying to figure out how to get the system, or the parts of it I want - to Minnesota. -- George Cornelius Remove BEGIN/END to reply ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:42:19 -0500 From: Chuck Forsberg Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:31:47 -0600, George Cornelius wrote: > In article <__idnYcN3PaCikfanZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@giganews.com>, Chuck > Forsberg writes: >> System has a DLT tape in addition to the 9-track. Also ethernet and two >> hard drives. System has an old VMS on it and was working last time it >> was powered up. The clock battery is dead so you must enter the date >> when powering up. >> >> Free to a good home. You Haul. Portland Oregon Satisfaction >> guaranteed or full purchase refunded (S&H not included). >> >> caf@omen.com > > Greetings, Mr. Forsberg. Glad to have Mr. rzsz / Zmodem himself visit > comp.os.vms . > > I still send out copies of your document on the state of affairs with > regard to X/Y/Zmodem 'standards' to people who want something definitive > on the topic. > > Yes, I'm interested - I will send you email - but I'm trying to figure > out how to get the system, or the parts of it I want - to Minnesota. It's a Kennedy 9000 800/1600 9 track with tension arms two Unibus style cables to a large board in the VAX -- /u/caf/signature.txt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:32:04 +0300 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" Subject: Re: ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx Message-ID: <69CC2AE16ED087533D841000FA18A8D0@NNTP.DeltaTel.RU> Hi! 1) @sys$manager:ucx$configure -> Server components -> NTP -> Enable 2) set default SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP] 3) copy TCPIP$NTP.TEMPLATE *.conf 4) edi TCPIP$NTP.CONF ... 5) @sys$startup:$ntp_shutdown 6) @sys$startup:$ntp_startup Jack wrote:Server components > I need to configure ntp on vms ver 6.2 with ucx. > Can I get a link or a reference? > Thanks > Jack > > > -- + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker ................ ICQ# 319518233 + Delta Telecom JSC, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operator Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 716-3222 +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only + ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 14:46:57 -0600 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Message-ID: In article <47d95126$0$5604$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , tadamsmar writes: >>{...snip...} >> >>Opps, not quite there. It ran clean on the single disk. But when I >>add the other disk to the shadowset it reported the 4 blocks with >>errors. VMS does not want to give these up without a fight. >> >>I'm am going to init/erase that disk. Actually, there should be no need to. The shadow copy actually _reads_ from both disks before overwriting - for reasons that are not precisely clear to me - and it is expected behavior in that case for a read error to occur given that we already know that the target volume has forced error bits. After reading, however, it will go forward with overwriting those blocks thus clearing the forced error bits. I would guess that if you re-ran the shadow copy the errors would have disapperared. > What happens if you shadow and mount an init'd disk (i.e. nothing on it)? VAXman, you may not have been following the entire thread (or set of threads), but he has tried a number of things, including $ BACKUP/IMAGE source/SAVE_SET original_source_member: which of course initializes the volume before writing the files, and has not had the problem go away, presumably because nothing has ever written to the particular block(s) with the forced error bits. The $ INIT/ERASE was an attempt to completely overwrite the volume before restoring the backup. -- George Cornelius Remove BEGIN/END delimiters to reply > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:28:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com Subject: Re: Shadow set problem finally solved Message-ID: <21f2a7f2-7bc8-4006-95b7-61483d06660f@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 1:46 pm, BEGINcornel...@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) wrote: [...] > The shadow copy actually _reads_ from both disks before overwriting - for > reasons that are not precisely clear to me - and it is expected behavior > in that case for a read error to occur given that we already know that > the target volume has forced error bits. [...] I'm sure there is a post from Keith Parris in the archives about this, but the initial pair of READs is to save on I/Os if the blocks compare equal. In the case that they are different, there are 3 additional I/Os required, IIRC: one to write the data to the target of the shadow copy, another to read back the newly written block and make sure its correct, and possibly one more to read the source and make sure it hasn't changed? See Keith's posts for a more accurate description. ;-} -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:01:03 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > AEF wrote: > >> It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names >> where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group... >> system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process >> table? > > > That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily > come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then > beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is > another issue... :-) > > Jan-Erik. This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to do so. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 18:05:09 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <63vt2lF223licU1@mid.individual.net> In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> AEF wrote: >> >>> It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names >>> where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group... >>> system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process >>> table? >> >> >> That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily >> come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then >> beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is >> another issue... :-) >> >> Jan-Erik. > > This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! > Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received > VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to > do so. You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 18:16:31 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47dac0fe$0$5644$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first >>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the >>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place >>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ? >> >> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away >> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits. > >I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL >has nothing to do with this. > >> >> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach >> or similar means. > >Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ? >I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the >correct way to run/detached. Yes. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:18:42 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <6kzCj.4783$R_4.4322@newsb.telia.net> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >>> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first >>>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the >>>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place >>>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ? >>> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away >>> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits. >> I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL >> has nothing to do with this. >> >>> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach >>> or similar means. >> Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ? >> I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the >> correct way to run/detached. > > Yes. > "Yes" on both ? ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 18:27:04 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <63vuboF2951fcU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Jan-Erik Söderholm writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>, >> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! >>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received >>> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to >>> do so. > > You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last > sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person. > I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so > on, thought... > >> >> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You >> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting. >> >> bill >> >> > > Never using VMS mail. > And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ? Well, it is if you expect the person on the other end to actually see usable information. I know for a fact that if a somneone here got an Email that displayed a "$" in a URL: they wanted to get to they would type exactly what they saw on the screen. And then come to me when it doesn't work. :-) Or are you saying no one is still using VMS anyway so it is a non-problem. > > > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? > > Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-) OK, you are admiting that VMS is dead or at least dying. I thought we had a bunch of people here who still sing the praises of VMS with VT-terminals. What else is supported as a VMS only solution? And if you send email to a known VMS user, what assumptions do you make about how they read their email? > > I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they > don't switch to Mac) doing that... So, the way I see it, the concensus seems to be that VMS can't be used without other systems running other OSes to provide all the missing pieces. So then, why bother with VMS instead of a homogenous installation with less complexity and upkeep? I believe end of the era is in sight. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 14:43:00 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <6niTXR$kqnwV@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <47dac0fe$0$5644$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>Bob Koehler wrote: >>> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first >>>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the >>>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place >>>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ? >>> >>> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away >>> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits. >> >>I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL >>has nothing to do with this. >> >>> >>> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach >>> or similar means. >> >>Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ? >>I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the >>correct way to run/detached. > > Yes. No. LOGINOUT.EXE does not always run SYLOGIN.COM (It does not do so for sub-processes) No. We do not agree that LOGINOUT.EXE is the correct way to run/detach (What if you do not want or need a CLI?) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 19:05:41 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47dacc85$0$15187$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <6kzCj.4783$R_4.4322@newsb.telia.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>> Bob Koehler wrote: >>>> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >>>>> That was not was I wrote. I asked about the suggestion to first >>>>> create one logical i system table, then "copy" that logical in the >>>>> SYLOGIN to the process table. Why not create it in the first place >>>>> in the process table in the SYLOGICAL ? >>>> If SYLOGICAL creates a process table logical name, it will go away >>>> when booting is finished and the process that runs SYLOGICAL exits. >>> I corrected that in another post to SYLOGIN. Of course SYLOGICAL >>> has nothing to do with this. >>> >>>> Putting it in SYLOGIN won't help processes created with run/detach >>>> or similar means. >>> Doesn't LOGINOUT.EXE run SYLOGIN.COM ? >>> I thought we agreed on that LOGINOUT.EXE was the >>> correct way to run/detached. >> >> Yes. >> > >"Yes" on both ? Yes to RUN/DETACH... SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE executing SYLOGIN.COM As to whether it is the _CORRECT_ way to use RUN/DETACH depends on the particular application/situation. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:19:04 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article <63vt2lF223licU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>, > "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >>> AEF wrote: >>> >>>> It still seems to me that it should work like the usual logical names >>>> where the process has precedence over the job table, ... group... >>>> system, and the access modes and such. Why limit it to the process >>>> table? >>> >>> >>> That is a change to how it actualy works. I can also easily >>> come up with a lot of ways it could be made better then >>> beeing locked to the process logical table. But that is >>> another issue... :-) >>> >>> Jan-Erik. >> >> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! >> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received >> VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to >> do so. > >You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You >can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? Interesting. > >bill Totally agree Bill. They have introduced a bug pure and simple. Stripping out escape sequences is acceptable but not stripping out perfectly good printable ASCII characters. If this was done to cope with a misbehaving terminal emulator then the terminal emulator is broken and needs fixing. VMS mail needs to be returned to it's previous behaviour. Since the work on this bogus fix has now been done it might be acceptable to leave it in place as something which can be turned on if someone really needs it before the terminal emulator is fixed but it should definitely not be the default. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:22:18 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47daec93$0$23878$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Tom Wade wrote: >> It has to be a process logical name, and it has to have value "1": >> $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 > > I can't understand the thinking here. Surely it would have been just as > easily to query LNM$FILE_DEV as LNM$PROCESS ? While Mr Deninger admitted it was a "Great conspiracy", I disagree. This was a much simpler issue. As part of his education on VMS, a indian support newbie was given an assignment to use SYS$TRNLNM on a specific table. They chose a little used utility (MAIL) to get him to play with and prove he was able to read an english manual and use SYS$TRNLNM . They looked up a random request in some database and found this one wanting to filter the ~ character. And that became the newbie's assignment. There is absolutely no conspiracy here. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:24:44 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47daed22$0$23878$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> AEF wrote: > Seconded. I thought the whole point of having process, job, group, and > system logical names and the different access modes is that you can > define a global value in the system Just be thankful they didn't decide that the process logical would have to be defined in /EXEC mode to ensure nobody could tamper with MAIL's behaviour without privileges. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:27:43 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47daedd5$0$23878$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > I can set, for example, the editor on a per-process basis. What would be > the reason for having to preclude using the user's mail profile in lieu of > a process logical? Changing the MAIL profile would probably be a major issue. It would also require changing MAIL to incorporate new SET commands, update the HELP to reflect the new options etc etc. Not sure if they could operate "new" MAIL on old unconverterd profiles, so they would also need to include a mail profuile converter during the upgrade process, and this would causd problems for clusters with 7.3 and 8.3 The indian worker bees are not at that level of VMS expertise yet. They are just learning about logical names. Given time, they will be given permission to thinker with more important parts of VMS. :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:33:19 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47daef26$0$23900$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! > Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received > VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to > do so. I have just sent him a personal email containing the ~ and curly brackets. So the above message is no longer applicable ;-) Seriously, the curly brtackets are quite common when exchanging snipped of source code (or whole .C files (and pascal also uses it, so does HTML for CSS and I am sure a whole bunch of other lnaguages) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:57:51 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47DAF4DF.60708@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > >>This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! >>Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received >>VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to >>do so. > > > I have just sent him a personal email containing the ~ and curly > brackets. So the above message is no longer applicable ;-) > > Seriously, the curly brtackets are quite common when exchanging snipped > of source code (or whole .C files (and pascal also uses it, so does HTML > for CSS and I am sure a whole bunch of other lnaguages) But I didn't receive it with VMS MAIL! I use Netscape Mail on Windoze for my personal mail, reading newsgroups, etc. I haven't used VMS to send or receive mail since August 2004 when I left my last job! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:27:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <59899236-5b8e-41c5-9b4c-bfa2296d354c@x30g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 5:22=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Tom Wade wrote: > >> =A0It has to be a process logical name, and it has to have value "1": > >> =A0 $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 > > > I can't understand the thinking here. =A0Surely it would have been just = as > > easily to query LNM$FILE_DEV as LNM$PROCESS ? > > While Mr Deninger admitted it was a "Great conspiracy", I disagree. This > was a much simpler issue. As part of his education on VMS, a indian > support newbie was given an assignment to use SYS$TRNLNM on a specific > table. They chose a little used utility (MAIL) to get him to play with > and prove he was able to read an english manual and use SYS$TRNLNM > . They looked up a random request in some database and found this one > wanting to filter the ~ character. And that became the newbie's assignment= . > > There is absolutely no conspiracy here. > > :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:38:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <9db9f276-8e33-46c8-b09b-e30e57bc8aad@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 14, 5:22=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Tom Wade wrote: > >> =A0It has to be a process logical name, and it has to have value "1": > >> =A0 $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 > > > I can't understand the thinking here. =A0Surely it would have been just = as > > easily to query LNM$FILE_DEV as LNM$PROCESS ? > > While Mr Deninger admitted it was a "Great conspiracy", I disagree. This > was a much simpler issue. As part of his education on VMS, a indian > support newbie was given an assignment to use SYS$TRNLNM on a specific > table. They chose a little used utility (MAIL) to get him to play with I saw the smiley. But you know the thing about poking fun is that there is always this element underneat... Anyway... I happened to sit next to Robert at the lunch table today. He confided that it was in fact a 'Dying Swan Act' from a decade+ experienced OpenVMS sustaining support engineer. She left not too long ago. And the change was provoked/triggered/jousted by a multy-decade experienced OpenVMS engineer under the guise of security concerns. It's still wrong and it sucks (IMnsHO), but it was not an immature act by a novice. In fact, today while walking the hallowed hallways of Spitbrook road possibly for a last time I heard nothing but good about the support/ engineering skills of the Indian entensions to the OpenVMS team. Sure there can be communication problems, but there are some really good resource out there and they are helping you here and now to make OpenVMS become a better product whether you like it or not. Off to Boston Billards, Nashua. Happy Hour! Cheers, Hein ------------------------------ Date: 15 Mar 2008 01:00:52 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <640le4F267268U1@mid.individual.net> In article <47DAD59A.7010502@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>> In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>, >>> "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>> >>>> This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! >>>> Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or >>>> received VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt >>>> the need to do so. >>> >> >> You're right of course. It must have been > 15 years since I last >> sent or received a personal mail using VMS-Mail. Person-to-person. >> I do have some automatied routines that sends notifications and so >> on, thought... >> >>> >>> You have never sent anyone an email with a personal URL: in it? You >>> can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? >>> Interesting. >>> >>> bill >>> >>> >> >> Never using VMS mail. >> And *sending* isn't a problem, is it ? >> >> > You can't see any time in the future when oyu might need to do it? >> >> Using VT-based VMS-Mail? In the future? Joke of the week... :-) :-) >> >> I can't see anyone but some die-hard hobbyists (if they >> don't switch to Mac) doing that... >> >> Jan-Erik. > > I used to use VMS Mail with the JAMS Batch Scheduler. I had set up JAMS > in such a way that when a batch job failed, JAMS would send E-mail to > the responsible party. In the case of System jobs; e.g. disk backups, > these e-Mails were sent to my pager or, later on, my cellular phone. I > would then log in from home and take any necessary corrective action or, > in extreme cases, jump in my car and drive the ten miles to work if > there was no one there who could mount a tape of push a button for me. > > JAMS had extensive error handling capabilities. The ability to send > e-Mail when a job ended abnormally was a BIG plus. > > Ordinary business and personal mail was handled via Netscape (and still > is). It may be old but so am I, and I'm used to it. You know, I hadn't thought of it when the idea of using VT-terminals for text based email was laughed here a few messages ago but I just had to quell a minor riot when I threatened to remove Pine and Elm from our servers. Seems that the use of text based email clients is not limited to VMS hobbyists and fanatics. :-) And, no, I was not able to eliminate these products from our stable even though we offer POP, IMAP and Web access to email as alternatives. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 23:23:26 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <3QlvfMB5GTFF@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > You can set a process logical once for all users as system manager. > I do not think you can do that with the Mail profile. > > By having it in SYLOGIN.COM there is nothing additional to be done > when a new user is created. Not all systems are configured with SYS$SYLOGIN. Some are arrange to avoid login overhead. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Mar 2008 23:25:38 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article <47DABD5F.2060003@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > This subject is certainly being debated with a great deal of enthusiasm! > Frankly, I don't see why. I don't believe I have EVER sent or received > VMS Mail containing a tilde character. Nor have I ever felt the need to > do so. I regularly receive email containing URLs with an embedded tilde, which I have to replace after copy and paste. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:02:44 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: What Netcraft say about identifying the webserver OS Message-ID: <13tlmfai8mpic0@corp.supernews.com> "Tad Winters" wrote in message news:Xns9A617950AF601staffordnospamwinter@199.45.49.11... > issinoho wrote in news:6dd7b0a9-93c5-4e93-b1dc- > 15a0315b0156@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com: > > > I managed to get MediaWiki running on OpenVMS but it wasn't without > > problems. I know there was at least one enquiry about this in the past > > so I have documented the process here, > > http://vamp.issinoho.com/viewforum.php?f=19 > > > > Hope this helps a few people. > > > > Cool. Netcraft.com reports that web site as running Windows Server 2008. > I'm wondering why. Netcraft don't generally *know* what OS a webserver is running, they make an educated guess "by looking in detail at the network characteristics of the HTTP reply received from the web site." (see http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#os ) They admit that "The reported operating system may be different to the one you expected ..." e.g. because the "site has changed the default configuration of their TCP/IP stack". They explicitly claim that they can reliably identify VMS but, perhaps understandably, they say nothing about identifying which of VMS's various possible IP stacks may be in use. Have a look at the full article and read into it what you will. Hth, John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:29:35 GMT From: Michael Austin Subject: Re: What Netcraft say about identifying the webserver OS Message-ID: John Wallace wrote: > "Tad Winters" wrote in message > news:Xns9A617950AF601staffordnospamwinter@199.45.49.11... >> issinoho wrote in news:6dd7b0a9-93c5-4e93-b1dc- >> 15a0315b0156@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com: >> >>> I managed to get MediaWiki running on OpenVMS but it wasn't without >>> problems. I know there was at least one enquiry about this in the past >>> so I have documented the process here, >>> http://vamp.issinoho.com/viewforum.php?f=19 >>> >>> Hope this helps a few people. >>> >> Cool. Netcraft.com reports that web site as running Windows Server 2008. >> I'm wondering why. > > Netcraft don't generally *know* what OS a webserver is running, they make > an educated guess "by looking in detail at the network characteristics of > the HTTP reply received from the web site." (see > http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#os ) > > They admit that "The reported operating system may be different to the one > you expected ..." e.g. because the "site has changed the default > configuration of their TCP/IP stack". They explicitly claim that they can > reliably identify VMS but, perhaps understandably, they say nothing about > identifying which of VMS's various possible IP stacks may be in use. > > Have a look at the full article and read into it what you will. > > Hth, > John > > It could also be that the site uses Dynamic DNS and may have been queried during the middle of an IP address change (network bounce etc...) I had problems with frequent changes while on a cable network. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:59:33 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: What Netcraft say about identifying the webserver OS Message-ID: Michael Austin writes: >John Wallace wrote: >> "Tad Winters" wrote in message >> news:Xns9A617950AF601staffordnospamwinter@199.45.49.11... >>>> >>> Cool. Netcraft.com reports that web site as running Windows Server 2008. >>> I'm wondering why. >> >> Netcraft don't generally *know* what OS a webserver is running, they make >> an educated guess "by looking in detail at the network characteristics of >> the HTTP reply received from the web site." (see >> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html#os ) >> >> They admit that "The reported operating system may be different to the one >> you expected ..." e.g. because the "site has changed the default >> configuration of their TCP/IP stack". They explicitly claim that they can >> reliably identify VMS but, perhaps understandably, they say nothing about >> identifying which of VMS's various possible IP stacks may be in use. >> >> Have a look at the full article and read into it what you will. >It could also be that the site uses Dynamic DNS and may have been >queried during the middle of an IP address change (network bounce >etc...) I had problems with frequent changes while on a cable network. A system I maintain went from having the operating system listed as being "OpenVMS" to being "unknown" by netcraft. A step backwards. During the inteval it changed IP addresses and went from Apache 1.3.12 to 1.3.20, and there probably was a VMS upgrade there as well. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.149 ************************