INFO-VAX Wed, 23 Jul 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 409 Contents: Re: LTO3 drives on Alpha VMS Re: OT: Carly as VP? Re: OT: Carly as VP? Re: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? Re: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:30:27 -0700 (PDT) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: LTO3 drives on Alpha VMS Message-ID: On 17 Jul, 04:19, "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > We have and Alpha Server 1200 running Open VMS 8.3 (with current updates). > Will the VMS Backup recognize and use an LTO3 drive? > > Thanks, > Mike Ober. Yep, will work fine. I've set them up on v7.3-x so 8.3 will be fine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:13:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Subject: Re: OT: Carly as VP? Message-ID: <3279597d-321e-439e-8ef4-f5910c194989@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On 12 Jul, 00:39, "William Webb" wrote: > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 7:09 AM, John Smith > wrote: > > > > > > >http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/06/20/fiorina-history/ > > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > >news:485ef521$0$12292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > > > John Smith wrote: > > >>http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11258.html > > > > She's been mentioned a few times, especially after McCain admitted he > > > wasn't a hot shot when it comes to economic issues. Having her behind > > > his back would help him with the economic side. (or so they say). > > > > Carly, despite being a blonde bimbo, can speak and say nothing using > > > this week,s buzzwords without saying anything or without understanding > > > any of it. Sounds like the perfect definition of a politician. > > > > I think it will come down to whether McCain feels he needs a token > > > female as VP to counter the possibility of Hillary as VP. > > > > Hopefully the VP debate will be held in a giant vat of jello which would > > > make for a most excellent cat fight between Hillary and Carly. "My > > > hairdresser is better than yours", "my business jet is bigger than > > > yours", "yeah, but mine is faster than yours". > > > > One thing is for sure, Carly understand and supports the patriot act > > > very well. She likes the ability to listen in on phone conversations, > > > plant emails to fetter out certain people etc etc. > > And I thought the current crop of *Presidential* candidates were > unpalatable! > > WWWebb I don't know about you but I love the idea of Bob having to vote for one of the people who apparently helped to kill Alpha. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:38:43 -0400 From: Bob Willard Subject: Re: OT: Carly as VP? Message-ID: Andrew wrote: > On 12 Jul, 00:39, "William Webb" wrote: > >>On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 7:09 AM, John Smith >>wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/06/20/fiorina-history/ >> >>>"JF Mezei" wrote in message >>>news:485ef521$0$12292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >>> >>>>John Smith wrote: >>>> >>>>>http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11258.html >> >>>>She's been mentioned a few times, especially after McCain admitted he >>>>wasn't a hot shot when it comes to economic issues. Having her behind >>>>his back would help him with the economic side. (or so they say). >> >>>>Carly, despite being a blonde bimbo, can speak and say nothing using >>>>this week,s buzzwords without saying anything or without understanding >>>>any of it. Sounds like the perfect definition of a politician. >> >>>>I think it will come down to whether McCain feels he needs a token >>>>female as VP to counter the possibility of Hillary as VP. >> >>>>Hopefully the VP debate will be held in a giant vat of jello which would >>>>make for a most excellent cat fight between Hillary and Carly. "My >>>>hairdresser is better than yours", "my business jet is bigger than >>>>yours", "yeah, but mine is faster than yours". >> >>>>One thing is for sure, Carly understand and supports the patriot act >>>>very well. She likes the ability to listen in on phone conversations, >>>>plant emails to fetter out certain people etc etc. >> >>And I thought the current crop of *Presidential* candidates were >>unpalatable! >> >>WWWebb > > > I don't know about you but I love the idea of Bob having to vote for > one of the people who apparently helped to kill Alpha. What Bob? If you mean GC Bob, then I don't think he ever really liked Alpha, or any other technology, unless you count suit material. {This Bob is in no danger of voting for Carly, or for any other VP candidate running with John McBush.} -- Cheers, Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:20:21 -0700 (PDT) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? Message-ID: <8266ff18-1181-43b2-9412-b06feacec0cb@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> On 21 jul, 15:05, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > If I have a cluster w/2 AS systems and a quorum disk (each with one vote, > quorum=2), > Can I boot a vax into this cluster (with zero votes) if it has no direct > access to the quorum disk? > If yes, would it need the quorum disk sysgen parameters set and that disk > mspc-served from > one or both of the AS systems? The documentation tells us that a quorum disk must be directly attached to a system, if you want to use the quorum disk sysgen parameter. Directly attached means DSSI, SCSI or CI (and possibly fiber channel but I have no experience with that). It may not be a network served disk in an LAVc. Furthermore, there may be just one quorum disk in a cluster. So in your example, when both AS systems have a quorum disk then the conclusion is that this quorum disk is on a common SCSI bus shared by these two AS's. Since a VAX cannot share a SCSI bus at all, it cannot have knowledge about that quorum disk. In a two node AS cluster a third participant could prevent a cluster transition happen. That third participant could either be a quorum disk or a quorum VAX. The disk was thought to be somewhat cheaper than VAX. Adding a quorum disk to the VAX (and only to that system) is technically possible but quite useless in terms of uptime because one could just as well add the quorum disk votes to the votes of the VAX. However in that example, the quorum disk would only e accessed by the VAX and doesn't need to be visible to the AS systems. Incidentally, a two node NI cluster where each node has access to its own quorum disk will boot and function. When both disks and both hosts (VAX or Alpha) each have VOTES=1 and QUORUM=2 the following happens. Both nodes boot and will recognize each other (via the network). ANALYSE/SYSTEM shows that the quorum disks have no function in the cluster quorum calculations. As soon as one node fails, the remaining node suddenly remembers it has a quorum disk, uses that vote to replce the lost one from the failed host, reaches quorum and starts to function again. The way this works is NOT supported and DEC, errr HP, states that damaga to on-dis structures is possible if one decides to operate a cluster that way. For hobbyist use I find it rather convenient though :-) Hans ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:44:37 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: VAX w/zero votes and no QuorumDisk access? Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005BF45C8525748F_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" H Vlems wrote on 07/23/2008 08:20:21 AM: > On 21 jul, 15:05, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > > If I have a cluster w/2 AS systems and a quorum disk (each with one vote, > > quorum=2), > > Can I boot a vax into this cluster (with zero votes) if it has no direct > > access to the quorum disk? > > If yes, would it need the quorum disk sysgen parameters set and that disk > > mspc-served from > > one or both of the AS systems? > > The documentation tells us that a quorum disk must be directly > attached to a system, if you want to use the quorum disk sysgen > parameter. > Directly attached means DSSI, SCSI or CI (and possibly fiber channel > but I have no experience with that). It may not be a network served > disk in an LAVc. > Furthermore, there may be just one quorum disk in a cluster. > So in your example, when both AS systems have a quorum disk then the > conclusion is that this quorum disk is on a common SCSI bus shared by > these two AS's. > Since a VAX cannot share a SCSI bus at all, it cannot have knowledge > about that quorum disk. > In a two node AS cluster a third participant could prevent a cluster > transition happen. That third participant could either be a quorum > disk or a quorum VAX. The disk was thought to be somewhat cheaper than > VAX. Adding a quorum disk to the VAX (and only to that system) is > technically possible but quite useless in terms of uptime because one > could just as well add the quorum disk votes to the votes of the VAX. > However in that example, the quorum disk would only e accessed by the > VAX and doesn't need to be visible to the AS systems. > All that is fascinating, but does not relate to my situation. I (will) have a cluster with 2 AS systems and a quorum disk each with one vote. The disks are on SAN=Fibrechannel, including the quorum disk. What I was asking is: Can I then boot a VAX with a common cluster-interconnect into this cluster with zero boots despite the fact that the VAX cannot see the quorum disk directly, and in that case, should the VAX be sysgened with or without the quorum disk - I now believe without. > Incidentally, a two node NI cluster where each node has access to its > own quorum disk will boot and function. When both disks and both hosts > (VAX or Alpha) each have VOTES=1 and QUORUM=2 the following happens. > Both nodes boot and will recognize each other (via the network). > ANALYSE/SYSTEM shows that the quorum disks have no function in the > cluster quorum calculations. As soon as one node fails, the remaining > node suddenly remembers it has a quorum disk, uses that vote to > replce the lost one from the failed host, reaches quorum and starts to > function again. The way this works is NOT supported and DEC, errr HP, > states that damaga to on-dis structures is possible if one decides to > operate a cluster that way. For hobbyist use I find it rather > convenient though :-) > Hans --=_alternative 005BF45C8525748F_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
H Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> wrote on 07/23/2008 08:20:21 AM:

> On 21 jul, 15:05, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
> > If I have a cluster w/2 AS systems and a quorum disk (each with one vote,
> > quorum=2),
> > Can I boot a vax into this cluster (with zero votes) if it has no direct
> > access to the quorum disk?
> > If yes, would it need the quorum disk sysgen parameters set and that disk
> > mspc-served from
> > one or both of the AS systems?
>
> The documentation tells us that a quorum disk must be directly
> attached to a system, if you want to use the quorum disk sysgen
> parameter.
> Directly attached means DSSI, SCSI or CI (and possibly fiber channel
> but I have no experience with that). It may not be a network served
> disk in an LAVc.
> Furthermore, there may be just one quorum disk in a cluster.
> So in your example, when both AS systems have a quorum disk then the
> conclusion is that this quorum disk is on a common SCSI bus shared by
> these two AS's.
> Since a VAX cannot share a SCSI bus at all, it cannot have knowledge
> about that quorum disk.
> In a two node AS cluster a third participant could prevent a cluster
> transition happen. That third participant could either be a quorum
> disk or a quorum VAX. The disk was thought to be somewhat cheaper than
> VAX. Adding a quorum disk to the VAX (and only to that system) is
> technically possible but quite useless in terms of uptime because one
> could just as well add the quorum disk votes to the votes of the VAX.
> However in that example, the quorum disk would only e accessed by the
> VAX and doesn't need to be visible to the AS systems.
>
All that is fascinating, but does not relate to my situation.

I (will) have a cluster with 2 AS systems and a quorum disk each
with one vote.  The disks are on SAN=Fibrechannel, including the quorum
disk.  What I was asking is:  Can I then boot a VAX with a common
cluster-interconnect into this cluster with zero boots despite the fact
that the VAX cannot see the quorum disk directly, and in that case,
should the VAX be sysgened with or without the quorum disk - I now
believe without.

> Incidentally, a two node NI cluster where each node has access to its
> own quorum disk will boot and function. When both disks and both hosts
> (VAX or Alpha) each have VOTES=1 and QUORUM=2 the following happens.
> Both nodes boot and will recognize each other (via the network).
> ANALYSE/SYSTEM shows that the quorum disks have no function in the
> cluster quorum calculations. As soon as one node fails, the remaining
> node suddenly remembers it has a quorum disk, uses that  vote to
> replce the lost one from the failed host, reaches quorum and starts to
> function again. The way this works is NOT supported and DEC, errr HP,
> states that damaga to on-dis structures is possible if one decides to
> operate a cluster that way. For hobbyist use I find it rather
> convenient though :-)
> Hans
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