INFO-VAX Wed, 19 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 626 Contents: Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? RE: Former VMS guy need small free database More strategic resource allocation from the HP/VMS congoscente OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Re: OVMS NetBeans IDE Error Re: OVMS NetBeans IDE Error Re: OVMS NetBeans IDE Error Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Terminal will not work on Alpha Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:51:51 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: On Nov 18, 12:52=A0pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > R.A.Omond wrote: > > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> [...snip...] > > >> Yes, there is. =A0The end of Unix! =A0And good riddance! > > >> Actually, Unix will be moving to 64 bits for timekeeping. =A0This will > >> delay the "end of time" for about 30,000 years. =A0This fact will be > >> rediscovered 29,998 years from now and there will be a "Year 30K" > >> problem. =A0We should consider ourselves fortunate that we will not ha= ve > >> to cope with it. > > > Talk for yourself ... I have no intention of dying. > > > I aim to live forever, else I'm gonna die trying ;-) > > I think it was Bill Cosby who said: "Some people seek immortality > through their children, others seek it through their work. =A0I plan to > seek immortality by not dying!" Hmmm. I read that on a page of Woody Allen quotes. OTOH, the quote "Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once" has been attributed to him, John Wheeler, Einstein, and Anonymous. Who knows? The second part of this quote is, "And space keeps everything from happening to me." > > Actually, I'm inclined to doubt that immortality is that good a deal. > Did you ever notice an article in your newspaper about the "World's > oldest man/woman"? =A0There is invariably a photograph of the oldest > man/woman. =A0The photo invariably shows an attendant holding the oldest > by one arm. =A0These photos all leave me wondering if he/she can stand an= d > walk unassisted, feed him/herself, and whether he still recognizes his > relatives and friends, etc. > > A few, rare, individuals make it to 120 but I'm not certain that it's > worth doing! Well, how about immortality without an aging body. Pick an age between 20 and 35? Of course, what would happen to your mind after centuries have passed? You'd need a mind-flush every now and then! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:11:19 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <6r6dnX5etYxKRb_UnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >>> In article <000db06b$0$12274$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >>>> The Unix system time is just seconds in a 32 bit integer and it >>>> simplifies arithmetic being done. >>> But provides a clock usefull over only 68 years. Don't try to use it >>> to support a business that plans to be in business for over 100 >>> years. >>> >> I've heard rumors that most Unices either plan to adopt, or have >> adopted, a 64 bit time. > > Internally, yes. But the API is still 32 bit. C and UNIX need to > propose and adopt a new API, just as Fortran did for Y2K. > > Fortran defined the DATE function as returning (in part) the > two-digit year since 1900. Obviously that definition couldn't be > adheared to in 2000. The function was redefined to return the > last two digits in the year, and a new function was added that > returns the four digit year. The only code I have that uses DATE > just wants to report the year and those two digits are fine. > > C and UNIX need to adopt a definition for what the current API will > return by the end of 2038, and a new API that will last somewhat > longer. 30 years ought to be plenty of time to get it done. Y2K was anticipated at LEAST thirty years beforehand! Little or nothing was done until the last three or four months. VMS had very few problems and the applications my employers ran were quickly and easily fixed. I really don't expect that anything will be done before January 2037. Hopefully, things written between now and 2038 will be written in such a way that they will continue to work without problems for the next fifty or sixty years. So much for hope; I'm afraid that reality will be a great deal messier!! > > Meanwhile, other, newer tools, such as Java, have already adopted > much more usefull calendar systems. > > But the world ends in 2012, right? > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:16:30 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: On Nov 18, 6:14=A0pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <6r6dnX5etYxKRb_UnZ2dnUVZ_gCdn...@giganews.com>, "Richard B. G= ilbert" writes: > > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >> In article <000db06b$0$12274$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > >>> The Unix system time is just seconds in a 32 bit integer and it > >>> simplifies arithmetic being done. > > >> =A0 =A0But provides a clock usefull over only 68 years. =A0Don't try t= o use it > >> =A0 =A0to support a business that plans to be in business for over 100 > >> =A0 =A0years. > > > I've heard rumors that most Unices either plan to adopt, or have > > adopted, a 64 bit time. > > =A0 =A0Internally, yes. =A0But the API is still 32 bit. =A0C and UNIX nee= d to > =A0 =A0propose and adopt a new API, just as Fortran did for Y2K. > > =A0 =A0Fortran defined the DATE function as returning (in part) the > =A0 =A0two-digit year since 1900. =A0Obviously that definition couldn't b= e > =A0 =A0adheared to in 2000. =A0The function was redefined to return the > =A0 =A0last two digits in the year, and a new function was added that > =A0 =A0returns the four digit year. =A0The only code I have that uses DAT= E > =A0 =A0just wants to report the year and those two digits are fine. > > =A0 =A0C and UNIX need to adopt a definition for what the current API wil= l > =A0 =A0return by the end of 2038, and a new API that will last somewhat > =A0 =A0longer. =A030 years ought to be plenty of time to get it done. > > =A0 =A0Meanwhile, other, newer tools, such as Java, have already adopted > =A0 =A0much more usefull calendar systems. > > =A0 =A0But the world ends in 2012, right? Any relevant C implementation (Unix, Linux, gcc+friends, recent Mac, etc) has already addressed the issue of moving from time_t as 32bit (only) to time_t as potentially 64bit with 32bit for backward compatibility. Even Visual Studio has options for both. I can't comment on today's VMS [1] but on any given implementation, time.h should make it reasonably clear what the options are (as would the relevant man pages). I'm not sure what you mean by "the API is still 32bit". The 64bit versions are required to calculate when the US and UK goverments are expecting their rescue packages for the casinos to be repayable. [1] An article from Hoff not too long ago seemingly implied VMS time_t was still 32bit only: http://64.223.189.234/node/735 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:10:05 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Michael Moroney wrote: > Yes it was a mess. However I picked those times because the countries > that switched after Great Britain did were mostly relatively minor players > while still on the Julian calendar. Very much like those "minor players" today that still are using inches, feets, ounces and pounds. Yes, it *is* a mess... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:49:11 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > >> Yes it was a mess. However I picked those times because the countries >> that switched after Great Britain did were mostly relatively minor >> players >> while still on the Julian calendar. > > Very much like those "minor players" today that still are using > inches, feets, ounces and pounds. Yes, it *is* a mess... :-) At least those antique units are now defined in terms of meters, kilograms, etc. Many food products are marked in the metric system as well as the English system. Pharmaceuticals are sold in milligrams or grams. The familiar 5 grain aspirin tablet is now 365mg. As long as it's stamped "Bayer", nobody cares. You are NOT going to convert 300,000,000 people overnight. Especially when they have little or no incentive to learn. You can buy metric wrenches and, if you have a Japanese or a German car, you will need them. There a probably three times as many "English" wrenches sold as there are metric. There's a LOT of "English" hardware still in use and will be for many years. About thirty years ago, during an early "gasoline crisis", a few gas stations were selling gasoline by the liter. It didn't last! When the shortage ended, liters disappeared and gasoline was once again sold by the gallon. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Nov 2008 22:17:16 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-XlzGNmf18UTI@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:49:11 UTC, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > > Michael Moroney wrote: > > > >> Yes it was a mess. However I picked those times because the countries > >> that switched after Great Britain did were mostly relatively minor > >> players > >> while still on the Julian calendar. > > > > Very much like those "minor players" today that still are using > > inches, feets, ounces and pounds. Yes, it *is* a mess... :-) > > At least those antique units are now defined in terms of meters, No, defined in terms of metres, etc... and litres... -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:27:00 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <000f5869$0$4013$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > What, exactly, is your objection? That YOU were not allowed to choose it? Perhaps it has to do with the creation of those sects in the USA that refuse to beleive in evolution/science and focus on creationism. As such, they would only accept dec 25 in the year 0 as the start of time when Jesus was born. The smithsonian date is way too scientific to their liking and they would rather have a religious event as start of time. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:41:59 -0700 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <1227054972_1233@isp.n> AEF wrote: > On Nov 17, 9:31 pm, Jeff Campbell wrote: >> AEF wrote: >>> On Nov 17, 11:40 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" >>> wrote: >>>> AEF wrote: >>>>> On Nov 17, 3:13 am, "The Mip" wrote: >>>>>> $set ver >>>>>> $ crea foobar.foo >>>>>> $ wr f$file("foobar.foo","bdt") >>>>>> 17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00 >>>>>> $ wr f$time() >>>>>> 17-NOV-2008 07:53:57.56 >>>>>> 150 years since i backed up that file :) >>>>>> - the_mip >>>>>> Lets celebrate with a good old 1 :http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_2315.html >>>>> So that's fine, but why did VMS adopt this (the Modified Julian Day)? >>>>> It doesn't say. It doesn't answer the question. >>>>> AEF >>>> There is an explanation of sorts; something to do with obsoleting star >>>> charts or something like that. There is a detailed explanation at: >>>> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_2315.html >>>> As the representation used by VMS will not overflow for more than 3,000 >>>> years (it may be 30,000 (I don't recall)) there is no urgent reason to >>>> fix the problem! >>>> If anybody still cares 3,000 or 30,000 years from now, they can adopt >>>> whatever solution(s) meet their needs. >>> That's the same one that doesn't say why the MJD was adopted by >>> VMS. . . . The mystery remains. >>> AEF >> It's Julian day 2,400,000. >> >> ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----http://www.pronews.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups >> ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- > > So shy did they pick Julian day 2,400,000? > > AEF That should be self-evident. B) ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:19:00 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Bob Eager wrote: > On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:49:11 UTC, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > >> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >>> Michael Moroney wrote: >>> >>>> Yes it was a mess. However I picked those times because the countries >>>> that switched after Great Britain did were mostly relatively minor >>>> players >>>> while still on the Julian calendar. >>> Very much like those "minor players" today that still are using >>> inches, feets, ounces and pounds. Yes, it *is* a mess... :-) >> At least those antique units are now defined in terms of meters, > > No, defined in terms of metres, etc... and litres... > It may depend on what language you are writing in! In the U.S. meters and liters are correct. I won't even attempt to guess how the French, Germans, Italians, British, etc, spell these words. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:28:23 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> What, exactly, is your objection? That YOU were not allowed to choose it? > > Perhaps it has to do with the creation of those sects in the USA that > refuse to beleive in evolution/science and focus on creationism. As > such, they would only accept dec 25 in the year 0 as the start of time > when Jesus was born. > > The smithsonian date is way too scientific to their liking and they > would rather have a religious event as start of time. > > :-) No, no, no. . . . The universe was created ca. 1 September 1940. I was born nine months later. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:13:57 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <4923846e$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <000db06b$0$12274$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei >> writes: >>> The Unix system time is just seconds in a 32 bit integer and it >>> simplifies arithmetic being done. >> >> But provides a clock usefull over only 68 years. Don't try to use it >> to support a business that plans to be in business for over 100 >> years. > > I've heard rumors that most Unices either plan to adopt, or have > adopted, a 64 bit time. AFAIK then Tru64, AIX, Solaris, MacOS X, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD all has 64 bit time (usually only when 64 bit version, but I think it is safe to assume that 32 bit versions will be gone long before 2038). Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:15:24 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <492384c5$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <6r6dnX5etYxKRb_UnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >> Bob Koehler wrote: >>> In article <000db06b$0$12274$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >>>> The Unix system time is just seconds in a 32 bit integer and it >>>> simplifies arithmetic being done. >>> But provides a clock usefull over only 68 years. Don't try to use it >>> to support a business that plans to be in business for over 100 >>> years. >>> >> I've heard rumors that most Unices either plan to adopt, or have >> adopted, a 64 bit time. > > Internally, yes. But the API is still 32 bit. What API ? The most critical item is time_t and it can be both 32 bit and 64 bit and are indeed usually 64 bit on 64 bit platforms. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:15:25 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > JF Mezei wrote: > > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > > >> What, exactly, is your objection? That YOU were not allowed to choose it? > > > > Perhaps it has to do with the creation of those sects in the USA that > > refuse to beleive in evolution/science and focus on creationism. As > > such, they would only accept dec 25 in the year 0 as the start of time > > when Jesus was born. > > > > The smithsonian date is way too scientific to their liking and they > > would rather have a religious event as start of time. > > > > :-) > > No, no, no. . . . The universe was created ca. 1 September 1940. I was > born nine months later. . . . No, it was sometime in 1935. As John Lennon said, "Before Elvis, there was nothing." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:59:06 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: There's a company that's been selling a whole bunch of Itanium rx2600 systems on Ebay, for as low as $100 each (without management processor card) or $250 for ones with it. Has anyone here grabbed one and put VMS on it? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:10:45 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson \(GMail\)" Subject: RE: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <019e01c949c2$20207190$606154b0$@com> > I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot > and > I know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you may > have already done what I trying to do. > [snip] > > I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) > application development tool. I have a very small database application > that I need to develop for our hiking club. The club has no money to > buy any software, let alone any computers to run it. It works with > volunteers only. I volunteered to look at better solution than a > spreadsheet to keep track of the hikes and the hikers. I need to > develop this application in a manner that allows me to transfer the > entire application and database to someone else when I'm no longer > around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. > > The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively > stable once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, while > the 4th table will be fairly active, which will be basically a log of > every hike performed by every hiker. Two of the tables will have less > than 10 columns, while the other two may have up to 20 columns. Pretty > simple. Download xampp for your pc. http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp-windows.html This provides a local Apache webserver to run on your PC along with PHP & MySQL. It also provides phpmyadmin, which is a good web based interface to MySQL. If you need someone to get you started with a local web page, I'd be happy to help you. Contact me privately if you want to go that direction. Ken Robinson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:24:27 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: More strategic resource allocation from the HP/VMS congoscente Message-ID: http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/11/18/1050594 VMS's going down the S-bend has *nothing* to do with advertising. Absolute Disbelief! Regards Richard Maher PS. I demand new versions of Safari/VMS and Opera/VMS immediately! These developers have been hit hard by the sharemarket crash and there is no longer enough VMS-trough to go round :-( We're in the money. . . we're in the money. . .we gotta lotta what it takes to get along! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:00:23 -0700 From: Randy Park Subject: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot and I know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you may have already done what I trying to do. First of all my background. I was a software developer from 1975 until the late 1990s. I developed software on OpenVMS systems eventually writing code to interface to Oracle, Ingres, Rdb, Sybase, Progress, and Interbase databases, somtimes simultaneously. I would use their native call routines whenever possible. I had very little use for any tools that sat on top of the database engine other than the interactive SQL tool. I also have very extensive experience with indexed file structures (ISAM, B-Tree, etc.). I haven't done any database development now for at least 15 years, so I'm a bit rusty. Plus I'm now retired. I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) application development tool. I have a very small database application that I need to develop for our hiking club. The club has no money to buy any software, let alone any computers to run it. It works with volunteers only. I volunteered to look at better solution than a spreadsheet to keep track of the hikes and the hikers. I need to develop this application in a manner that allows me to transfer the entire application and database to someone else when I'm no longer around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively stable once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, while the 4th table will be fairly active, which will be basically a log of every hike performed by every hiker. Two of the tables will have less than 10 columns, while the other two may have up to 20 columns. Pretty simple. I need to be able to have a tool that will allow me to develop a form for easy adding, changing, and deleting of rows in each of the tables. It would be nice if the form would allow some simple data validation as it was entered by the end user, such as looking up the Hiker_ID in the Hiker table when it is being entered into the Hike_Log table. I also need to develop a few reports, some to validate the integrity of the data and some to list subsets of the data. I looked at the Open Office suite and MySQL. After spending several hours experimenting, the Open Office database product doesn't appear to have the capabilities that I need. Some strange requirements involving a unique integer primary index. Perusing the MySQL web pages I was not able to find any free tool that allowed the data entry form development. Maybe it's there, but I couldn't find it. Oracle appears to offer a FREE database product called Oracle 10g XE. (I remember when they wanted thousands of $ from application software developers to have their application support the Oracle database. So seeing FREE was a nice surprise.) Their web page also indicates that SQL developer is also free. But Oracle is so big and complex. The reporting that I need appears to be available in SQL developer. I haven't done enough research to see if it allows me to develop the table maintenance forms that I want. Soooo.... Does anyone know of any free PC based database software tools that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:20:41 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: Randy Park wrote: > Soooo.... Does anyone know of any free PC based database software tools > that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? > > Thanks in advance. Maybe "Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Express (Free)" ? http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2008/en/us/default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:32:13 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <49233457$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Randy Park wrote: > I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot and > I know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you may > have already done what I trying to do. > > First of all my background. I was a software developer from 1975 until > the late 1990s. I developed software on OpenVMS systems eventually > writing code to interface to Oracle, Ingres, Rdb, Sybase, Progress, and > Interbase databases, somtimes simultaneously. I would use their native > call routines whenever possible. I had very little use for any tools > that sat on top of the database engine other than the interactive SQL > tool. I also have very extensive experience with indexed file > structures (ISAM, B-Tree, etc.). I haven't done any database > development now for at least 15 years, so I'm a bit rusty. Plus I'm now > retired. > > I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) > application development tool. I have a very small database application > that I need to develop for our hiking club. The club has no money to > buy any software, let alone any computers to run it. It works with > volunteers only. I volunteered to look at better solution than a > spreadsheet to keep track of the hikes and the hikers. I need to > develop this application in a manner that allows me to transfer the > entire application and database to someone else when I'm no longer > around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. > > The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively > stable once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, while > the 4th table will be fairly active, which will be basically a log of > every hike performed by every hiker. Two of the tables will have less > than 10 columns, while the other two may have up to 20 columns. Pretty > simple. > > I need to be able to have a tool that will allow me to develop a form > for easy adding, changing, and deleting of rows in each of the tables. > It would be nice if the form would allow some simple data validation as > it was entered by the end user, such as looking up the Hiker_ID in the > Hiker table when it is being entered into the Hike_Log table. I also > need to develop a few reports, some to validate the integrity of the > data and some to list subsets of the data. > > I looked at the Open Office suite and MySQL. After spending several > hours experimenting, the Open Office database product doesn't appear to > have the capabilities that I need. Some strange requirements involving > a unique integer primary index. Perusing the MySQL web pages I was not > able to find any free tool that allowed the data entry form development. > Maybe it's there, but I couldn't find it. > > Oracle appears to offer a FREE database product called Oracle 10g XE. (I > remember when they wanted thousands of $ from application software > developers to have their application support the Oracle database. So > seeing FREE was a nice surprise.) Their web page also indicates that > SQL developer is also free. But Oracle is so big and complex. The > reporting that I need appears to be available in SQL developer. I > haven't done enough research to see if it allows me to develop the table > maintenance forms that I want. > > Soooo.... Does anyone know of any free PC based database software tools > that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? The database is not the problem. There are big commercial databases with free edititions: Oracle MS SQLServer IBM DB2 Sybase typical they are called express edition and has a max. of 4 GB data. There are open source database: MySQL PostgreSQL FireBird Derby And then there are the embedded or embeddable databases: MS Access HypersonicSQL/HSQLDB/H2 MS SQLServer CE Firebird You need to decide on whether you want a server that can support multiple users or an embedded database which will work best for single user. Still possible. The problem is the tool to edit data. MS Access is probably easiest but it cost money unless you happen to have MS Office Pro already. OpenOffice is build on top of HSQLDB, but you don't like that. The typical DBA tool is not very end user friendly. You are sure that you don't want to slam some screens together in Java/C#/VB.NET - it is not that difficult - especially not with your background. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:13:08 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <8660a3a10811181313q46882b36m91ceca7a30147e28@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Randy Park wrote: > I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot and I > know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you may have > already done what I trying to do. > > First of all my background. I was a software developer from 1975 until the > late 1990s. I developed software on OpenVMS systems eventually writing code > to interface to Oracle, Ingres, Rdb, Sybase, Progress, and Interbase > databases, somtimes simultaneously. I would use their native call routines > whenever possible. I had very little use for any tools that sat on top of > the database engine other than the interactive SQL tool. I also have very > extensive experience with indexed file structures (ISAM, B-Tree, etc.). I > haven't done any database development now for at least 15 years, so I'm a > bit rusty. Plus I'm now retired. > > I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) application > development tool. I have a very small database application that I need to > develop for our hiking club. The club has no money to buy any software, let > alone any computers to run it. It works with volunteers only. I > volunteered to look at better solution than a spreadsheet to keep track of > the hikes and the hikers. I need to develop this application in a manner > that allows me to transfer the entire application and database to someone > else when I'm no longer around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. > > The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively stable > once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, while the 4th > table will be fairly active, which will be basically a log of every hike > performed by every hiker. Two of the tables will have less than 10 columns, > while the other two may have up to 20 columns. Pretty simple. > > I need to be able to have a tool that will allow me to develop a form for > easy adding, changing, and deleting of rows in each of the tables. It would > be nice if the form would allow some simple data validation as it was > entered by the end user, such as looking up the Hiker_ID in the Hiker table > when it is being entered into the Hike_Log table. I also need to develop a > few reports, some to validate the integrity of the data and some to list > subsets of the data. > > I looked at the Open Office suite and MySQL. After spending several hours > experimenting, the Open Office database product doesn't appear to have the > capabilities that I need. Some strange requirements involving a unique > integer primary index. Perusing the MySQL web pages I was not able to find > any free tool that allowed the data entry form development. Maybe it's > there, but I couldn't find it. > > Oracle appears to offer a FREE database product called Oracle 10g XE. (I > remember when they wanted thousands of $ from application software > developers to have their application support the Oracle database. So seeing > FREE was a nice surprise.) Their web page also indicates that SQL developer > is also free. But Oracle is so big and complex. The reporting that I need > appears to be available in SQL developer. I haven't done enough research to > see if it allows me to develop the table maintenance forms that I want. > > Soooo.... Does anyone know of any free PC based database software tools > that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? > > Thanks in advance. > Can't speak for specifics, but Intersystems offers a two-user version of Cache for free on their website. I'm a systems guy, not a DBA, so I can't tell you whether it'd do what you wanted ot not. WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:24:48 -0800 (PST) From: MetaEd Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: <87f8a1ed-8d31-4da5-a959-28db803bea89@u29g2000pro.googlegroups.com> Randy, If there are no hidden requirements (I can assume the requirements you identified here are what led you to abandon a spreadsheet), and if you really mean it when you say you used the word database loosely, then I am going to make a serious (so don't laugh) case for Google Spreadsheets. There is no fee for service, no software to buy, no new hardware to buy, no software to install on your PC if you already have a supported web browser. And your PC does not have to be Windows based. It is multiuser. Hiker can log their own hikes through a form so you do not have to. On your part, changing and deleting records is done with the spreadsheet paradigm. Adding records other than hikes can be done the same way, or you can set up forms. Data validation with forms is not supported, but you listed that only as a nice to have. You would validate your data afterward. I have experience developing data validation and data subsets in Google Spreadsheets. Based on my experience, I can predict that someone with your development background would have no difficulty developing the necessary array formulas to report invalid data and to produce subsets. Your trainee maintainer can have full access to the live application and learn it by collaborating with you. If you get hit by a truck --- just be sure your trainee already has full access. Your trainee does not even need to move files to take over the job. Taking over maintenance by your trainee will be aided by an understanding of array formulas. I imagine this is less sophisticated than you were thinking, but if you are planning to hand off to a hiker possibly without development experience I consider it a feature. Your trainee will find it easier to learn spreadsheet and to get spreadsheet help than if you employ a database. Check out the level of community support in the related Google help group. You do have to sell your soul to Google, but I believe there is a simple transfer requisition to fill out if it was previously acquired by Microsoft. Best wishes, Edward -- What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:21:00 -0800 (PST) From: PR Subject: Re: OT: Former VMS guy need small free database Message-ID: On Nov 18, 3:00=A0pm, Randy Park wrote: > I know this is the wrong forum, but I used to lurk around here a lot and > I know that you guys will give a straight answer plus many of you may > have already done what I trying to do. > > First of all my background. =A0I was a software developer from 1975 until > the late 1990s. =A0I developed software on OpenVMS systems eventually > writing code to interface to Oracle, Ingres, Rdb, Sybase, Progress, and > Interbase databases, somtimes simultaneously. =A0I would use their native > call routines whenever possible. =A0I had very little use for any tools > that sat on top of the database engine other than the interactive SQL > tool. =A0I also have very extensive experience with indexed file > structures (ISAM, B-Tree, etc.). =A0I haven't done any database > development now for at least 15 years, so I'm a bit rusty. =A0Plus I'm no= w > retired. > > I'm looking for free PC based database (I use that word loosely) > application development tool. =A0I have a very small database application > that I need to develop for our hiking club. =A0The club has no money to > buy any software, let alone any computers to run it. =A0It works with > volunteers only. =A0I volunteered to look at better solution than a > spreadsheet to keep track of the hikes and the hikers. =A0I need to > develop this application in a manner that allows me to transfer the > entire application and database to someone else when I'm no longer > around, move away, get hit by a truck, or whatever. > > The application involves only 4 tables, 3 which will be relatively > stable once loaded, maybe 10% growth in number of rows per year, while > the 4th table will be fairly active, which will be basically a log of > every hike performed by every hiker. =A0Two of the tables will have less > than 10 columns, while the other two may have up to 20 columns. =A0Pretty > simple. > > I need to be able to have a tool that will allow me to develop a form > for easy adding, changing, and deleting of rows in each of the tables. > It would be nice if the form would allow some simple data validation as > it was entered by the end user, such as looking up the Hiker_ID in the > Hiker table when it is being entered into the Hike_Log table. =A0I also > need to develop a few reports, some to validate the integrity of the > data and some to list subsets of the data. > > I looked at the Open Office suite and MySQL. =A0After spending several > hours experimenting, the Open Office database product doesn't appear to > have the capabilities that I need. =A0Some strange requirements involving > a unique integer primary index. =A0Perusing the MySQL web pages I was not > able to find any free tool that allowed the data entry form development. > =A0 Maybe it's there, but I couldn't find it. > > Oracle appears to offer a FREE database product called Oracle 10g XE. (I > remember when they wanted thousands of $ from application software > developers to have their application support the Oracle database. =A0So > seeing FREE was a nice surprise.) =A0Their web page also indicates that > SQL developer is also free. =A0But Oracle is so big and complex. =A0The > reporting that I need appears to be available in SQL developer. =A0I > haven't done enough research to see if it allows me to develop the table > maintenance forms that I want. > > Soooo.... =A0Does anyone know of any free PC based database software tool= s > that provide for fairly simple table data maintenance using forms? > > Thanks in advance. Nice set of requirements. :) Let me make a couple caveats here - in that I don't know what you want to write this in. So take the suggestions below with with a grain of salt. (1) Download OpenCobol compiled for Windows and go to town. With only four tables, it will be a retty exact translate into four data files, and OpenCOBOL will handle that like a breeze. Forms, etc. All there. (2) Look at Bento by FileMaker. can't been this if you plan on turning the application over. Costs under $100, which goes against your no cost rule, but you will absolutley love it for this kind of thing. No brains required. :) (3) Microsoft Visual Basic - free, and has the Access database engine built in. Makes for nice little windows applications like this. (4) Not free, but even better for these kinds of things - RealBasic. Nice in that it compiles executables for Windows, Macs, and Linux. $99. (5) Check out OpenOffice - free and you can do some amazing things with the Macros on it. Depending upon your taste, one of the above will satisfy your needs. Me? I would use OpenCOBOL. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: 18 Nov 2008 19:37:40 -0500 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: OVMS Integrity BASIC LTU Getting only 1 user at cost of $2400.00??? Message-ID: "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> Oh, I have humor. But that was yet another of the typical Unix type >> comments here and based on the demonstrated level of real Unix knowledge >> in this group there is little if any reason to assume it isn's a serious >> comment requiring an answer. I mean would be the response here if I >> constantly complained about SOS being the only VMS editor. :-) > Hey! I used SOS ca. 1984. It was OK as editors go and about the only > usable choice if you didn't have a VT100 compliant terminal. I wouldn't > put up with it NOW but expectations have changed over the last > twenty-five years! It took a while but Princeton finally caved in and > bought some VT terminals; AIRC they were VT-220s. > Bit of ancient trivia: SOS stood for Son Of Stopgap. Stopgap was > apparently an early editor but I arrived on the scene a little too late > to have any experience with it. IIRC, Son of STOPGAP was written at SAIL, as an improvement upon the STOPGAP line editor. It was eventually renamed EDIT by DEC (probably about the same time that "UnUsed Opcodes" became "Unimplemented User Operations", the original PDP-10 system call mechanism). EDIT was available on both Tops-10 and TOPS-20. -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:55:50 -0800 (PST) From: sccr13plyr@gmail.com Subject: Re: OVMS NetBeans IDE Error Message-ID: <7926d135-070c-483c-9f55-8d68e627e20f@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Nov 18, 1:06=A0pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1162ca5f-c114-4ad0-829c-c6cb82ded...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups= .com>, sccr13p...@gmail.com writes: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > Our System Admin recently installed the OpenVMS component for > > NetBeans. =A0I installed NetBeans and the OVMS module on my machine. > > When I try to establish a connection with the remote IDE server, I get > > a popup with the error: > > > error during JRMP connection establishment; nested exception is: > > javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed connection > > during handshake > > > The sysadmin has been too busy to look at the issue right now, so I > > was curious if anyone around here might have some suggestions as to > > what the problem might be... > > > TIA > > > sccr13plyr > > =A0 =A0Since you have no data and we're just wild guessing here, I'd susp= ect > =A0 =A0something in your LOGIN.COM on the remote server that the connecti= on > =A0 =A0doesn't expect.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Bob, Thank you for your response! I have provided pretty much the data I have. I was looking for someone who has installed and used the NetBeans IDE and perhaps had come across this error. If everyone who is using NetBeans has not seen this error, then I would assume that my friendly neighborhood admin has missed a setup step. As for the login.com, the NetBeans application connects to an IDE $SERVER daemon. It apparently uses my OVMS credentials for authentication somewhere along the road, but I don't think it is even getting that far (as putting in an invalid password or username does not change the error message). Even if it did, I had already changed the login to immediately exit as a safeguard. There is an IDE$SERVER log on the VMS box and this some addtional information: java.rmi.ConnectIOException: error during JRMP connection establishment; nested exception is: javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed connection during handshake at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.createConnection (TCPChannel.java:273) at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.newConnection (TCPChannel.java:171) at sun.rmi.server.UnicastRef.newCall(UnicastRef.java:306) at sun.rmi.registry.RegistryImpl_Stub.rebind(Unknown Source) at org.netbeans.modules.distributed.util.RMIMethodInvoker $1BindThread.run(Unknown Source) Caused by: javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed connection during handshake at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.readRecord (SSLSocketImpl.java:742) at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.performInitialHandshake (SSLSocketImpl.java:1030) at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.writeRecord (SSLSocketImpl.java:622) at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.AppOutputStream.write (AppOutputStream.java:59) at java.io.BufferedOutputStream.flushBuffer (BufferedOutputStream.java:65) at java.io.BufferedOutputStream.flush (BufferedOutputStream.java:123) at java.io.DataOutputStream.flush(DataOutputStream.java:106) at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.createConnection (TCPChannel.java:198) ... 4 more Caused by: java.io.EOFException: SSL peer shut down incorrectly at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.InputRecord.read (InputRecord.java:333) at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.readRecord (SSLSocketImpl.java:723) ... 11 more But, I am not 100% they are related. Any further thoughts? sccr13plyr, HP ASE (Of the OVMS flavor) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:54:24 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: OVMS NetBeans IDE Error Message-ID: sccr13plyr@gmail.com wrote: > On Nov 18, 1:06 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: >> In article <1162ca5f-c114-4ad0-829c-c6cb82ded...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, sccr13p...@gmail.com writes: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hello, >>> Our System Admin recently installed the OpenVMS component for >>> NetBeans. I installed NetBeans and the OVMS module on my machine. >>> When I try to establish a connection with the remote IDE server, I get >>> a popup with the error: >>> error during JRMP connection establishment; nested exception is: >>> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed connection >>> during handshake >>> The sysadmin has been too busy to look at the issue right now, so I >>> was curious if anyone around here might have some suggestions as to >>> what the problem might be... >>> TIA >>> sccr13plyr >> Since you have no data and we're just wild guessing here, I'd suspect >> something in your LOGIN.COM on the remote server that the connection >> doesn't expect.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Bob, > > Thank you for your response! I have provided pretty much the data I > have. I was looking for someone who has installed and used the > NetBeans IDE and perhaps had come across this error. If everyone who > is using NetBeans has not seen this error, then I would assume that my > friendly neighborhood admin has missed a setup step. > > As for the login.com, the NetBeans application connects to an IDE > $SERVER daemon. It apparently uses my OVMS credentials for > authentication somewhere along the road, but I don't think it is even > getting that far (as putting in an invalid password or username does > not change the error message). Even if it did, I had already changed > the login to immediately exit as a safeguard. > > There is an IDE$SERVER log on the VMS box and this some addtional > information: > > java.rmi.ConnectIOException: error during JRMP connection > establishment; nested exception is: > javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed > connection during handshake > > at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.createConnection > (TCPChannel.java:273) > > at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.newConnection > (TCPChannel.java:171) > > at sun.rmi.server.UnicastRef.newCall(UnicastRef.java:306) > > at sun.rmi.registry.RegistryImpl_Stub.rebind(Unknown Source) > > at org.netbeans.modules.distributed.util.RMIMethodInvoker > $1BindThread.run(Unknown Source) > > Caused by: javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed > connection during handshake > > at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.readRecord > (SSLSocketImpl.java:742) > > at > com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.performInitialHandshake > (SSLSocketImpl.java:1030) > > at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.writeRecord > (SSLSocketImpl.java:622) > > at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.AppOutputStream.write > (AppOutputStream.java:59) > > at java.io.BufferedOutputStream.flushBuffer > (BufferedOutputStream.java:65) > > at java.io.BufferedOutputStream.flush > (BufferedOutputStream.java:123) > > at java.io.DataOutputStream.flush(DataOutputStream.java:106) > > at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.createConnection > (TCPChannel.java:198) > > ... 4 more > > Caused by: java.io.EOFException: SSL peer shut down incorrectly > > at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.InputRecord.read > (InputRecord.java:333) > > at com.sun.net.ssl.internal.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.readRecord > (SSLSocketImpl.java:723) > > ... 11 more > > > But, I am not 100% they are related. > > Any further thoughts? > > sccr13plyr, HP ASE (Of the OVMS flavor) Note that RMI (Java Remote procedure Invocation, if I'm not wrong) is sensitive to the network setup. In particular, it does not like NAT'ed networks, I have not been able to get OVMS NetBeans IDE to work over a link where client and/or server is NAT'ed. Localy in my office it works "as aspected"... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:26:09 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: OVMS NetBeans IDE Error Message-ID: If all else fails, this could be worth a look: - http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/11/10/0307734 Regards Richard Maher wrote in message news:1162ca5f-c114-4ad0-829c-c6cb82ded0eb@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > Hello, > > Our System Admin recently installed the OpenVMS component for > NetBeans. I installed NetBeans and the OVMS module on my machine. > When I try to establish a connection with the remote IDE server, I get > a popup with the error: > > error during JRMP connection establishment; nested exception is: > javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: Remote host closed connection > during handshake > > The sysadmin has been too busy to look at the issue right now, so I > was curious if anyone around here might have some suggestions as to > what the problem might be... > > TIA > > sccr13plyr > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:20:09 -0800 (PST) From: shadoooo Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <9610b6d1-6454-4b7e-ba87-3175ffd15e79@g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Hi all. I retried in this days the whole procedure, te be sure that the disk itself is good and working. I installed in a win2000 machine, formatted it and used a little: no problem. I double checked with SCU the ARRE and ARWE, they are disabled. I re-installed in the VAX4000-100A, reinited with test E1: no problem so far. Booted VMS 5.5, it's DKA100 (correctly seen by the firmware also in size). Tried to INIT it with VMS: drive fault. On ANALYZE /ERROR /INCLUDE=DKA100 /SINCE=TODAY (copied by hand from console) ERROR TYPE 06 INVALID MODE SENSE DATA MEDIUM TYPE 00 - DEFAULT MEDIUM TYPE FLAGS 10 - WRITE ENABLED BLOCK DESC 1. - _DEFAULT DENSITY OF MEDIUM _NUMBER OF BLOCK = 0. _BLOCK LENGHT = 512. PAGE DESC 1. - PAGE CODE = 01 ERROR RECOVERY PARAMETERS _RETRY_CNT = 17. _CORRECTION SPAN = 48. _HEAD OFFSET CNT = 0. _DATA STROBE OFFSET CNT =0. _RECOVERY TIME LIMIT = 9. MSEC PAGE DESC 2. - PAGE CODE = 02 DISCONNECT/RECONNECT CONTROL PARAMS _BUFFER FULL RATIO = 128. _BUFFER EMPTY RATIO = 128. _BUS INACTIVITY LIMIT = 1000. USEC _DISCONNECT TIME LIMIT = 0. USEC _CONNECT TIME LIMIT = 0. USEC PAGE DESC 3. - PAGE CODE = 03 DIRECT ACCESS DEVICE FORMAT PARAMS _4. TRACK/ZONE _10. ALTERNATE SECTORS/ZONE _0. ALTERNATE TRACKS/ZONE _8. ALTERNATE TRACKS/VOL _126. SECTORS/TRACK _512. DATA BYTES/PHYS SECTOR _1. INTERLEAVE _TRACK SKEW FACTOR = 36. _CYLINDER SKEW FACTOR = 48. _HARD SECTOR PAGE DESC 4. - PAGE CODE = 04 RIGID DISK DRIVE GEOMETRY PARAMS _NUMBER OF CYLINDERS =4177. _NUMBER OF HEADS = 4. _START CYL WRITE PRECOMP = 0. _START CYL REDUCE WRITE CURR = 0. _DRIVE STEP RATE = 0. _LANDING ZONE CYL = 0. PAGE DESC 5. - PAGE CODE = 07 RESERVED PAGE DESC 6. - PAGE CODE 08 RESERVED PAGE DESC 7. - PAGE CODE 0A RESERVED PAGE DESC 8. - PAGE CODE 00 VENDOR UNIQUE PAGE CODE UCB$B_ERTCNT 04 - 4. RETRIES REMAINING UCB$B_ERTMAX 00 - 0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE ORB$L_OWNER 00000000 - OWNER UIC [000,000] UCB$L_CHAR 1CC54008 - DIRECTORY STRUCTURED, FILE ORIENTED, SHAREABLE, AVAILABLE, ERROR LOGGING, ALLOCATED, CAPABLE OF INPUT, CAPABLE OF OUTPUT, RANDOM ACCESS UCB$W_STS 0000 USB$L_OPCNT 00000000 - 0. QIO'S THIS UNIT UCB$W_ERRCNT 0001 - 1. ERROR THIS UNIT IRP$W_BCNT 0000 - TRANSFER SIZE 0. BYTE(S) IRP$W_BOFF 0000 - TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED IRP$L_PID 00010013 - REQUESTOR "PID" IRP$Q_IOSB 00000001 00BD0000 - IOSB 0. BYTES(S) TRANSFERRED Any idea? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:34:49 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <000f5a3c$0$4013$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> shadoooo wrote: > Any idea? > I think some other poster may have revealed your problem. You may be using a version of VMS too old to use that disk. Have you considered upgrading VMS to its last VAX version 7.3) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:01:53 -0700 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <1227056166_1235@isp.n> shadoooo wrote: > I double checked with SCU the ARRE and ARWE, they are disabled. They have to be enabled for VMS. Jeff ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:50:41 -0600 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: shadoooo wrote: > I double checked with SCU the ARRE and ARWE, they are disabled. You also need to check the RC bit. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: 19 Nov 2008 00:30:29 GMT From: hamilton@news.individual.net (Bradford Hamilton) Subject: Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Message-ID: In article , IanMiller wrote: [...] >If you have an Itainium VMS system then compare it with the beta >release of firefox >http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/11/18/1050594 > I hope HP will release a version of Firefox for Alpha, as well. Seamonkey works better than the old Mozilla did, but perhaps Firefox will be better. Dare I hope for Thunderbird on VMS (Alpha)? [...] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:52:41 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Message-ID: "Bradford Hamilton" wrote in message news:slrngi6nh5.1u5.hamilton@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com... > In article , > IanMiller wrote: > [...] > >If you have an Itainium VMS system then compare it with the beta > >release of firefox > >http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/11/18/1050594 > > > > I hope HP will release a version of Firefox for Alpha, as well. Seamonkey > works better than the old Mozilla did, but perhaps Firefox will be better. > > Dare I hope for Thunderbird on VMS (Alpha)? Consider it done :-( > [...] Regards Richard Maher ------------------------------ Date: 18 Nov 2008 22:44:52 EST From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Message-ID: In article , hamilton@news.individual.net (Bradford Hamilton) writes: > In article , > IanMiller wrote: > [...] >>If you have an Itainium VMS system then compare it with the beta >>release of firefox >>http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=08/11/18/1050594 >> > > I hope HP will release a version of Firefox for Alpha, as well. Seamonkey > works better than the old Mozilla did, but perhaps Firefox will be better. > > Dare I hope for Thunderbird on VMS (Alpha)? > [...] Several years back I had an opportunity to mention to various IT managers here that Mozilla was supported on VMS. All of the comments were like these: I thought VMS was dead. I thought VMS was in maintenance mode. I didn't know VMS was still being actively developed. I didn't know open source software was being ported to VMS. I didn't know GUI applications were still supported on VMS. The implication being that Mozilla support was a strong indication to them that VMS was still being actively supported and developed. I suspect that 99.9+% of IT managers who even know what VMS is would have similar comments given HP's dead silence concerning VMS to all but the few remaining faithful. George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:13:48 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: SWB 1.1.10 -- New quirk? Message-ID: <08111822134856_202004DB@antinode.info> From: IanMiller > > If you have an Itainium VMS system then compare it with the beta > > release of firefox > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=3D08/11/18/1050594 > > Will do. Suggestion appreciated. Hmmm. Not so hot. If I install the images ("@ SYS$SYSROOT:[firefox]INSTALL.COM"), the browser dies instantly with no complaint (here, as SYSTEM): IT $ @ SYS$SYSROOT:[FIREFOX]MOZILLA.COM Starting FIREFOX-BIN... IT $ If I try to run it as myself (not SYSTEM), with my home directory on a clustered Alpha with an ODS2 file system, then it fails when trying to create a profile: Profile Creation failed /!\ Profile couldn't be created. Probably the chosen folder isn't writable. [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIToolkitProfileService.createProfile]" nsresult: "0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://mozapps/content/profile/createProfileWizard.js :: onFinish :: line 233" data: no] I'm guessing that it's related to the dot before "New-Profile" in: Your user settings, preferences, bookmarks and mail will be stored in: /home_sms/sms/_mozilla/firefox/amuw5s4r.New-Profile The release notes do say that "ODS-5 Filesystem" "is required in order to successfully run the Firefox Web Browser", but it doesn't say where. It's _installed_ on an ODS5 file system. (But I'm not.) If I re-aim SYS$LOGIN to an ODS5 file system, then it works better. Directory IT$DKA100:[sms._MOZILLA.FIREFOX] BW07F16E^.DEFAULT.DIR;1 [...] Yup. Looks as if the dot separator in the directory name is the culprit. While Seamonkey iconizes to a Mozilla/Netscape icon, Firefox iconizes to a generic (four-square) icon. Well, it is a "T" version, I suppose... On the bright side, with [C]SWB, if I have multiple tabs open and switch from one to another, and then use a Prev|Next (Page-Up|Page-Dn) key, it's the previous tab not the current one which scrolls. With Firefox, that works as it should. Not perfect, but I'm pleased that it's being developed. (More developed would be better, of course.) SMS. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:20:57 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: Terminal will not work on Alpha Message-ID: <60fde967-d08f-422d-a8f6-996684b2f9ef@b31g2000prb.googlegroups.com> I tried to put an extra enhanced VGA terminal we had on a Alpha runing vms 7.3-2 It showed the boot up dialog, but not the decwindows login screen. Does that make sense? Why won't it work? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:47:02 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Message-ID: <08111815470276_202004DB@antinode.info> From: tadamsmar > I tried to put an extra enhanced VGA terminal A what? > we had on a Alpha runing > vms 7.3-2 "[P]ut [...] on" how? > It showed the boot up dialog, but not the decwindows login screen. > > Does that make sense? Not very much. > Why won't it work? Hard to say with no useful information. If it's a serial terminal, connected to a serial port, then it's probably not really an X terminal, so it probably can't really do DECwindows stuff. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:03:16 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Message-ID: tadamsmar wrote: > I tried to put an extra enhanced VGA terminal we had on a Alpha runing > vms 7.3-2 > > It showed the boot up dialog, but not the decwindows login screen. > > Does that make sense? Why won't it work? Because your video output is set to something that your monitor does not support. The boot prom uses some sort of "lowest common denominator" such as 1024x768 or 640x480. The last time I looked (years ago) your monitor needed to support "Sync on Green". 1024x768 is usually a good choice. 1280x1024 needs a BIG Screen; say 20". Refresh rates from 60Hz to 72Hz are generally supported. You need to match your video output to the capabilities of your monitor. If all else fails, you might try telling us the make and model of the monitor, your graphics output settings, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:35:43 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Message-ID: On Nov 18, 9:20=A0pm, tadamsmar wrote: > I tried to put an extra enhanced VGA terminal we had on a Alpha runing > vms 7.3-2 > > It showed the boot up dialog, but not the decwindows login screen. > > Does that make sense? =A0Why won't it work?. Suggestions to date about incompatible resolution/refresh rate are likely correct. Please start with a half decent proper multisync monitor. In this case that may well mean a CRT, *not* an LCD. Common LCDs I have seen seem horribly picky about refresh and resolution settings. A trusty ancient VRC16 or a half decent Trinitron would be good places to start. Or you could just refer to the relevant DECwindows documentation and startup files to see where the resolution and refresh rate can be configured to suit your graphics card and monitor. Modern (ie PCI-based) Alpha graphics cards don't need monitors which do sync on green; the last card I recall which optionally did sync on green was the PBXGA-xx, identifiable by the bank of DIP switches on the panel (and the letters PBXGA stamped on the panel?). In marketing terms it was the ZLXp-Esomething. Even with the PBXGA, sync on green is iirc configurable with a console variable setting (the details of which I forget, but it's obvious, and may well contain the string "TGA", eg tga_sync_on_green). Is there a particular reason you want a VGA (rather than serial) console? In a production environment, serial console has lots of advantages, whereas VGA has few. KVM-switch compatibility might appear to be one advantage of VGA, but tread carefully, e.g. in a mixed-OS environment, you may find your mouse will stop working at inopportune times because of different mouse setups. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:39:21 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Terminal will not work on Alpha Message-ID: <000f5b4c$0$4013$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Look at your startup procedure (systartup_VMS.com) or the SYLOGICALS.COM to see if you set DECS$IGNORE_DECWINDOWS logical. You also want to ensure that the SYSGEN parameter WINDOW_SYSTEM is set properly. (and update the MODPARAMS.DAT file as well) If window_system is set properly, the startup procedure will look or a valid device and if found, will start decwindows. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:27:15 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <49238792.EE814F9B@spam.comcast.net> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> Richard Maher wrote: > >>>> I think that is correct. > >>>> > >>>> Most of the VMS revenue must come from support and replacement > >>>> boxes for existing systems. > >>> Ah, that would explain why Ann McQuaid's lackeys keep getting her to spend > >>> all of the development budget on pet projects that are obviously of no use > >>> to these "existing systems", whilst steadfastly refusing to provide the same > >>> loyal customers with the means of *integrating* these VMS systems into their > >>> web-facing architecture, or even just to upgrade/modernize these systems > >>> with a simple GUI. > >>> > >>> Yeah, makes perfect cents :-( > >> I guess it makes perfect sense for HP to invest in the pet projects > >> they consider instead of the pet projects you consider useful. > > > > Exactly the point. VMS development is being driven by something other > > than customer demand, as we have witnessed. Hence, VMS's slow demise, as > > we continue to witness. > > Not really my point. > > I am not convinced that VMS would be that much better of by pursuing > Richards pet projects. Depends whether he can get VMS Management on board, like they used to be with Cerner. In large measure, Cerner was VMS's rudder - without them, it looks to be wondering aimlessly in its remaining markets. VMS needs a new "rudder" (read: customer focus). Show me a corporation that can survive by ignoring the needs of its customers (HP? ...M$?), or can survive without customers. Do the latter, and you open the door to Utopia. Write it up and get it published and you will probably be remembered as one of the greatest business minds of the early 21st Century. > >>>> Given what VMS systems are usually used for, then those existing > >>>> system will continue unless the company cease to exist. > >>> No, I think you'll find that many such systems are being turned-off (for the > >>> last time) quite regularly. > >> The number of VMS systems are decreasing. But they are not easy targets > >> for cost cuts, because 1) they are business critical > > > > Still replaceable. reference: the Healthcare market, formerly a staunch > > VMS stronghold, now being moved to (mostly non-HP) UN*X, thanx to HP. > > > >> 2) it takes time > >> and cost money to migrate to another platform. If it was easy to move > >> off VMS, then it probably would have been done already. > > > > It has been and is being done, even as you read this as healthcare sites > > abandon a platform no longer supported by the ISVs. The cost of > > transition is considered irrelevant compared to the risk of stagnating > > at the ISVs' last supported VMS releases. > > All true. > > But still not relevant for the context. > > When the the numbers go in red and the CIO needs to do something to > improve next quarter, then starting a platform migration of some complex > VMS systems is not the way to go. Trouble is, CIOs don't see it that way. All they see is a legacy platform with limited performance, all but extinct ISV and customer bases, an all but extinct field of trained, experienced professionals from which to hire, and hardware and software support costs spiralling upward out of control while their own user base is demanding more features, more compute power, more responsiveness, more - more - more. Not the exactly leading the way forward - definitely "career-limiting". > The recession is not going to accelerate the demise of VMS - it is > much more likely going to slow it down. I wish that were the case. However, such has not been my experience, nor the experience of many of my other peers to date, unfortunately. Server consolidation is the current movement, and since VMS doesn't run inside of VMware thanx to the demise of Emerald, guess what? D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:30:40 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <49238860.2ACE1FA7@spam.comcast.net> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > > JF Mezei wrote: > > Consider that even some of the VMS engineers who participated here last > > century did not see the usefulness of marketing/advertising. So it seems > > to me that there may be a strong cultural issue within the VMS group > > which accepts readily HP's decisions to not try to market VMS and not > > fight for advertising budgets. > > > > If the VMS group as a whole, has an image of not fighting back and just > > taking it, it becomes even easier for Stallard/Livermore to shift job > > cuts to VMS to reduce impact on the other departments. > > I would expect VMS engineers to do the job they are paid to do > not act as c.o.v ambassadors within HP. > > If not they would become ex VMS engineers rather quickly. Yeah - heaven forbid that the customer's voice should be heard and responded to. Meanwhile, other corporations are expanding their "customer advocate" departments, while HP invents new ways to ignore the customer. Bonus question: Who can tell the class where that will ultimately lead? D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:37:50 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <49238a07$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> David J Dachtera wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> David J Dachtera wrote: >>> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> Richard Maher wrote: >>>>>> Given what VMS systems are usually used for, then those existing >>>>>> system will continue unless the company cease to exist. >>>>> No, I think you'll find that many such systems are being turned-off (for the >>>>> last time) quite regularly. >>>> The number of VMS systems are decreasing. But they are not easy targets >>>> for cost cuts, because 1) they are business critical >>> Still replaceable. reference: the Healthcare market, formerly a staunch >>> VMS stronghold, now being moved to (mostly non-HP) UN*X, thanx to HP. >>> >>>> 2) it takes time >>>> and cost money to migrate to another platform. If it was easy to move >>>> off VMS, then it probably would have been done already. >>> It has been and is being done, even as you read this as healthcare sites >>> abandon a platform no longer supported by the ISVs. The cost of >>> transition is considered irrelevant compared to the risk of stagnating >>> at the ISVs' last supported VMS releases. >> All true. >> >> But still not relevant for the context. >> >> When the the numbers go in red and the CIO needs to do something to >> improve next quarter, then starting a platform migration of some complex >> VMS systems is not the way to go. > > Trouble is, CIOs don't see it that way. All they see is a legacy > platform with limited performance, all but extinct ISV and customer > bases, an all but extinct field of trained, experienced professionals > from which to hire, and hardware and software support costs spiralling > upward out of control while their own user base is demanding more > features, more compute power, more responsiveness, more - more - more. If they don't see it that way, then the CEO will kick them out and hire a CIO that knows that this type of platform migration cost money here and now. >> The recession is not going to accelerate the demise of VMS - it is >> much more likely going to slow it down. > > I wish that were the case. However, such has not been my experience, nor > the experience of many of my other peers to date, unfortunately. What recessions do you base that experience on ? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:40:05 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <49238a8e$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> David J Dachtera wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Consider that even some of the VMS engineers who participated here last >>> century did not see the usefulness of marketing/advertising. So it seems >>> to me that there may be a strong cultural issue within the VMS group >>> which accepts readily HP's decisions to not try to market VMS and not >>> fight for advertising budgets. >>> >>> If the VMS group as a whole, has an image of not fighting back and just >>> taking it, it becomes even easier for Stallard/Livermore to shift job >>> cuts to VMS to reduce impact on the other departments. >> I would expect VMS engineers to do the job they are paid to do >> not act as c.o.v ambassadors within HP. >> >> If not they would become ex VMS engineers rather quickly. > > Yeah - heaven forbid that the customer's voice should be heard and > responded to. > > Meanwhile, other corporations are expanding their "customer advocate" > departments, while HP invents new ways to ignore the customer. I am pretty sure that neither IBM, Oracle or SUN like their software engineers spending their time arguing with the bosses instead of developing software. Customer advocates are in other departments. Most likely marketing. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:18:18 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <0012e666$0$6617$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > I am pretty sure that neither IBM, Oracle or SUN like their > software engineers spending their time arguing with the bosses > instead of developing software. If I have a bunch of engineers or employees that are in contact with customers, especially those without formal ties with HP, or foremer customers who have explained why theur are "former" customers, then I would WANT them to tell me what they are hearing from the customer base. Again, read the book from lou Gerstner (who says elephants can't dance). One of the first thinsg he noticed upon entering IBM is that upper management had been given only the positive feedback from customers, never bad feedback, and only satisfied customers were polled in customer satisfaction surveys. Lower staff did not want to hand over any bad news to upper manager for fear of being fired or not getting a promotion. Gerstner changed that, demanding to get the bad news so that IBM could find out what the problems were that caused IBM to lose customers. It is a big shame that HP views this is "complain.os.vms" instead of "opportunity.os.vms" ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.626 ************************